Which Springs w/ Koni Yellows??
01-19-2010, 03:32 PM
#11
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,692
They exist... I have two sets myself. Yes, this backorder thing is a freaking nightmare. Koni NA is all over Koni Holland about it. I was told that heads are rolling over this mess (by someone @ Koni). Believe me, when I hear they are coming I'll post up because I have a huge number of those backorders for myself and my customers.
The bracket is subcontracted, and it's not up to what Koni wants to see for fit. Would you prefer a whole shock that is subpar? Tokico D-spec is your next best choice for adjustables, but the damper itself it not nearly as good. Be pissed, I don't blame you, I am too. But to imply that the issue somehow means they are idiots and can't built a good shock is insane, and frankly shortsighted. The bracket issue is a big deal to them because they don't want something out there that isn't up to scratch.
The bracket is subcontracted, and it's not up to what Koni wants to see for fit. Would you prefer a whole shock that is subpar? Tokico D-spec is your next best choice for adjustables, but the damper itself it not nearly as good. Be pissed, I don't blame you, I am too. But to imply that the issue somehow means they are idiots and can't built a good shock is insane, and frankly shortsighted. The bracket issue is a big deal to them because they don't want something out there that isn't up to scratch.
Last edited by Sleeper_08; 01-19-2010 at 04:08 PM.
01-19-2010, 03:34 PM
#12
1st Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: MI
Posts: 126
So are the sets that are out there bad?
I never implied they were "idiots". Those are your words not mine. But when you have 185 open orders in your system one would think they would try to expedite the fix and get them out on the market?
I'm a D&R Engineer at Ford and have dealt with may suppliers, Tokico and Koni are just two of them, and I find it hard to believe that they can't get this issue resolved a bit quicker. I can only speak for the OEM side of it and this kind of design flaw and shipping delay makes them look bad and brings their quality and reliability into question.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of Koni shocks and because my car is in storage until April/May, I will probably just wait it out with the rest of the folks.
I never implied they were "idiots". Those are your words not mine. But when you have 185 open orders in your system one would think they would try to expedite the fix and get them out on the market?
I'm a D&R Engineer at Ford and have dealt with may suppliers, Tokico and Koni are just two of them, and I find it hard to believe that they can't get this issue resolved a bit quicker. I can only speak for the OEM side of it and this kind of design flaw and shipping delay makes them look bad and brings their quality and reliability into question.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of Koni shocks and because my car is in storage until April/May, I will probably just wait it out with the rest of the folks.
01-19-2010, 03:41 PM
#13
Former Sponsor
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,936
One early run of shocks had an improperly welded bracket. They got as many back as they they could and exchanged for good ones. Koni even bought one customer a set of D-specs as a goodwill gesture. This issue is NOT THE SAME THING. This is an issue with the manufacture of the bracket and how it fits the body of the shock, as I understand it.
Maybe you didn't mean to imply anything, but others have. And when you say things like "it's simple to fix, it's not always and it comes across like "duh, just call someone else".
I am doing my best to push them along. Koni NA is fully aware of how desperate we are getting but at this point we are at the mercy of Koni Holland. If anyone wants to look at other options, they do exist, and I carry options as well.
Maybe you didn't mean to imply anything, but others have. And when you say things like "it's simple to fix, it's not always and it comes across like "duh, just call someone else".
I am doing my best to push them along. Koni NA is fully aware of how desperate we are getting but at this point we are at the mercy of Koni Holland. If anyone wants to look at other options, they do exist, and I carry options as well.
01-19-2010, 10:23 PM
#14
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location:
Posts: 187
Sam, is it true that the upper limit of spring rates on the Koni yellows is about 400 lbs. or so? I know they can be revalved to handle higher spring rates (for $150 or so each), but is it possible to order them from the factory already revalved and save some coin?
01-20-2010, 11:43 AM
#15
Former Sponsor
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,936
Geez, how high do you want to go???? 
The "limit" of a shock is a bit arbitrary. There is critical damping, and then the kind of damping more sporting drivers want (which is technically overdamped vs. critical). Critical damping being that the car doesn't pogo down the road because it can't damp the rate or mass.
The stiffest I've been is 325, and the Koni's not only handle that fine, I'm not @ full stiff. In fact have about 30% more damping force available to me should I want it. I don't. The car is very good doesn't bob or float and responds like a rocket.
In fact not one of my titles, be they on stock springs or not have been on revalved shocks, and in fact I've never run out of top-end adjustment on any of those either. And because of the transitions, autox is more about overdamping for response than track days where the damping need is more of the critical nature just because the car isn't being tossed transitionally nearly as hard. I still feel you want good low-speed damping to help the car respond, and I tend to run less rate than others because I get that turn in more from damping than super stiff springs that serve to make the car skatey and sudden (god forbid it's very bumpy).
Anyway what I was getting at is simple. I'd start off the shelf and see what's what. If you don't end up @ full stiff you don't need the ability to get more rebound control, which means you don't need to revalve the shocks saving yourself money. If you do find a need to revalve we have a much better idea by how much (based on how the car acts/feels at different settings), and it's not cost you anything more than some shipping.
The "limit" of a shock is a bit arbitrary. There is critical damping, and then the kind of damping more sporting drivers want (which is technically overdamped vs. critical). Critical damping being that the car doesn't pogo down the road because it can't damp the rate or mass.
The stiffest I've been is 325, and the Koni's not only handle that fine, I'm not @ full stiff. In fact have about 30% more damping force available to me should I want it. I don't. The car is very good doesn't bob or float and responds like a rocket.
In fact not one of my titles, be they on stock springs or not have been on revalved shocks, and in fact I've never run out of top-end adjustment on any of those either. And because of the transitions, autox is more about overdamping for response than track days where the damping need is more of the critical nature just because the car isn't being tossed transitionally nearly as hard. I still feel you want good low-speed damping to help the car respond, and I tend to run less rate than others because I get that turn in more from damping than super stiff springs that serve to make the car skatey and sudden (god forbid it's very bumpy).
Anyway what I was getting at is simple. I'd start off the shelf and see what's what. If you don't end up @ full stiff you don't need the ability to get more rebound control, which means you don't need to revalve the shocks saving yourself money. If you do find a need to revalve we have a much better idea by how much (based on how the car acts/feels at different settings), and it's not cost you anything more than some shipping.
01-20-2010, 10:27 PM
#16
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location:
Posts: 187
Geez, how high do you want to go????
The "limit" of a shock is a bit arbitrary. There is critical damping, and then the kind of damping more sporting drivers want (which is technically overdamped vs. critical). Critical damping being that the car doesn't pogo down the road because it can't damp the rate or mass.
The stiffest I've been is 325, and the Koni's not only handle that fine, I'm not @ full stiff. In fact have about 30% more damping force available to me should I want it. I don't. The car is very good doesn't bob or float and responds like a rocket.
In fact not one of my titles, be they on stock springs or not have been on revalved shocks, and in fact I've never run out of top-end adjustment on any of those either. And because of the transitions, autox is more about overdamping for response than track days where the damping need is more of the critical nature just because the car isn't being tossed transitionally nearly as hard. I still feel you want good low-speed damping to help the car respond, and I tend to run less rate than others because I get that turn in more from damping than super stiff springs that serve to make the car skatey and sudden (god forbid it's very bumpy).
Anyway what I was getting at is simple. I'd start off the shelf and see what's what. If you don't end up @ full stiff you don't need the ability to get more rebound control, which means you don't need to revalve the shocks saving yourself money. If you do find a need to revalve we have a much better idea by how much (based on how the car acts/feels at different settings), and it's not cost you anything more than some shipping.
The "limit" of a shock is a bit arbitrary. There is critical damping, and then the kind of damping more sporting drivers want (which is technically overdamped vs. critical). Critical damping being that the car doesn't pogo down the road because it can't damp the rate or mass.
The stiffest I've been is 325, and the Koni's not only handle that fine, I'm not @ full stiff. In fact have about 30% more damping force available to me should I want it. I don't. The car is very good doesn't bob or float and responds like a rocket.
In fact not one of my titles, be they on stock springs or not have been on revalved shocks, and in fact I've never run out of top-end adjustment on any of those either. And because of the transitions, autox is more about overdamping for response than track days where the damping need is more of the critical nature just because the car isn't being tossed transitionally nearly as hard. I still feel you want good low-speed damping to help the car respond, and I tend to run less rate than others because I get that turn in more from damping than super stiff springs that serve to make the car skatey and sudden (god forbid it's very bumpy).
Anyway what I was getting at is simple. I'd start off the shelf and see what's what. If you don't end up @ full stiff you don't need the ability to get more rebound control, which means you don't need to revalve the shocks saving yourself money. If you do find a need to revalve we have a much better idea by how much (based on how the car acts/feels at different settings), and it's not cost you anything more than some shipping.
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