Suspension Upgrades from Track Pack?
02-04-2010, 10:54 AM
#11
Former Sponsor
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CA
Posts: 107
Sounds like strano said basically the same thing I did. That the track pack isn't very good. There pare plenty of great products out there but there is so much crap for our cars we have to sift through first to find it. Check out our February BLOW OUT specials on our front and rear adjustable sway bars for S197s.
02-04-2010, 11:13 AM
#13
Former Sponsor
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,936
A few points here. I also make bars for the car... And adjustable ones front and rear. But I wanted some specific things on my rear bar. 3 things in fact.
1. I wanted to make sure it worked with Watts links and PHB's both... it does because we designed it that way. And the two types of Watts links I prefer both clamp to the axle tubes which means you can't bolt a bar there anyway (more on this in item #3).
2. I think it's stupid to drag around weight that is not useful, so both my bars are hollow.
3. My bar bolts to the stock location, keeping unsprung weight down (anything bolted to and supported on the axle is unsprung weight). There are times when more unsprung weight is a necessary evil... bigger brakes, bigger wheels/tires... Watts link should you run one, etc. But adding it to get an adjustable (or even a non-adjustable) bar isn't a valid reason. But it's cheaper to build the bars that way because it's easier to make a bar that bolts onto the axle than to the stock Ford mounts..... I opted not to go that way for the above reasons.
My bars are not nearly as cheap as the "great deals" Stillen is pushing.... And frankly I wouldn't want them to be. I think, hope actually... folks recognize detail and understanding, and get why my stuff isn't dirt cheap. But even not being Wal-Mart Closeout priced... the value is there. $379.99 isn't bad for a set of bars that has the background and testing put into them mine do. You could easily spend $100+ more or less on bars. I think you gain nothing with more expensive bars (unless you want massively stiff bars in which case I sell Hotchkis too), and you give up things with less expensive bars (which I also have being I sell Progress, Eibach and Steeda as well).
And finally.... Feel the need to point out that I am a Sponsor here, and am more than available to answer questions both here and by phone, and do it every day.
1. I wanted to make sure it worked with Watts links and PHB's both... it does because we designed it that way. And the two types of Watts links I prefer both clamp to the axle tubes which means you can't bolt a bar there anyway (more on this in item #3).
2. I think it's stupid to drag around weight that is not useful, so both my bars are hollow.
3. My bar bolts to the stock location, keeping unsprung weight down (anything bolted to and supported on the axle is unsprung weight). There are times when more unsprung weight is a necessary evil... bigger brakes, bigger wheels/tires... Watts link should you run one, etc. But adding it to get an adjustable (or even a non-adjustable) bar isn't a valid reason. But it's cheaper to build the bars that way because it's easier to make a bar that bolts onto the axle than to the stock Ford mounts..... I opted not to go that way for the above reasons.
My bars are not nearly as cheap as the "great deals" Stillen is pushing.... And frankly I wouldn't want them to be. I think, hope actually... folks recognize detail and understanding, and get why my stuff isn't dirt cheap. But even not being Wal-Mart Closeout priced... the value is there. $379.99 isn't bad for a set of bars that has the background and testing put into them mine do. You could easily spend $100+ more or less on bars. I think you gain nothing with more expensive bars (unless you want massively stiff bars in which case I sell Hotchkis too), and you give up things with less expensive bars (which I also have being I sell Progress, Eibach and Steeda as well).
And finally.... Feel the need to point out that I am a Sponsor here, and am more than available to answer questions both here and by phone, and do it every day.
02-04-2010, 11:33 AM
#14
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 227
A few points here. I also make bars for the car... And adjustable ones front and rear. But I wanted some specific things on my rear bar. 3 things in fact.
1. I wanted to make sure it worked with Watts links and PHB's both... it does because we designed it that way. And the two types of Watts links I prefer both clamp to the axle tubes which means you can't bolt a bar there anyway (more on this in item #3).
2. I think it's stupid to drag around weight that is not useful, so both my bars are hollow.
3. My bar bolts to the stock location, keeping unsprung weight down (anything bolted to and supported on the axle is unsprung weight). There are times when more unsprung weight is a necessary evil... bigger brakes, bigger wheels/tires... Watts link should you run one, etc. But adding it to get an adjustable (or even a non-adjustable) bar isn't a valid reason. But it's cheaper to build the bars that way because it's easier to make a bar that bolts onto the axle than to the stock Ford mounts..... I opted not to go that way for the above reasons.
My bars are not nearly as cheap as the "great deals" Stillen is pushing.... And frankly I wouldn't want them to be. I think, hope actually... folks recognize detail and understanding, and get why my stuff isn't dirt cheap. But even not being Wal-Mart Closeout priced... the value is there. $379.99 isn't bad for a set of bars that has the background and testing put into them mine do. You could easily spend $100+ more or less on bars. I think you gain nothing with more expensive bars (unless you want massively stiff bars in which case I sell Hotchkis too), and you give up things with less expensive bars (which I also have being I sell Progress, Eibach and Steeda as well).
And finally.... Feel the need to point out that I am a Sponsor here, and am more than available to answer questions both here and by phone, and do it every day.
1. I wanted to make sure it worked with Watts links and PHB's both... it does because we designed it that way. And the two types of Watts links I prefer both clamp to the axle tubes which means you can't bolt a bar there anyway (more on this in item #3).
2. I think it's stupid to drag around weight that is not useful, so both my bars are hollow.
3. My bar bolts to the stock location, keeping unsprung weight down (anything bolted to and supported on the axle is unsprung weight). There are times when more unsprung weight is a necessary evil... bigger brakes, bigger wheels/tires... Watts link should you run one, etc. But adding it to get an adjustable (or even a non-adjustable) bar isn't a valid reason. But it's cheaper to build the bars that way because it's easier to make a bar that bolts onto the axle than to the stock Ford mounts..... I opted not to go that way for the above reasons.
My bars are not nearly as cheap as the "great deals" Stillen is pushing.... And frankly I wouldn't want them to be. I think, hope actually... folks recognize detail and understanding, and get why my stuff isn't dirt cheap. But even not being Wal-Mart Closeout priced... the value is there. $379.99 isn't bad for a set of bars that has the background and testing put into them mine do. You could easily spend $100+ more or less on bars. I think you gain nothing with more expensive bars (unless you want massively stiff bars in which case I sell Hotchkis too), and you give up things with less expensive bars (which I also have being I sell Progress, Eibach and Steeda as well).
And finally.... Feel the need to point out that I am a Sponsor here, and am more than available to answer questions both here and by phone, and do it every day.
02-05-2010, 01:14 PM
#16
Former Sponsor
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CA
Posts: 107
Sam,
You bars are amazing. That being said, our bars are hollow and I just wanted people to know we are having a sale this month. Our bars are normally much more expensive than almost every ones. I also agree on the Hotckis boat anchors and the Eibach OE replacements that are powdercoated red
Your rear bar and you testing methods are top notch in my perosnal and professional opinion and you always give great advise on this site. Keep up the great work!
You bars are amazing. That being said, our bars are hollow and I just wanted people to know we are having a sale this month. Our bars are normally much more expensive than almost every ones. I also agree on the Hotckis boat anchors and the Eibach OE replacements that are powdercoated red
Your rear bar and you testing methods are top notch in my perosnal and professional opinion and you always give great advise on this site. Keep up the great work!
02-05-2010, 01:15 PM
#17
Former Sponsor
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CA
Posts: 107
02-05-2010, 03:19 PM
#18
Former Sponsor
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,936
Hotchkis bars aren't heavy.. they too are hollow. They are just too big not too heavy (they aren't solid). I will never compete with Stillen on the price, your bars have always been cheaper and again, I think a lot of that has to do with the fact the setup for the rear is more simple (not that it won't work, but it's a compromise.
Eibach bars aren't OE bars (unless you consider the fact FRPP bars are Eibach and they are stock on a Shelby GT). I don't know if you meant to imply they are stock bars coated red, because that's how it came across and it's incorrect. Stock bars are 34mm front, 20 rear, Eibach are 35/22 as well (rear solid non-adjustable, but bolts to the body not the axle so the unsprung weight is less).
There certainly is no shortage of options for swaybars... And of course we will both figure our respective companies have the better option. I do my bars to work as I think best, not on price--so anyone wanting to save a few bucks over thinking about how the bars function in terms of unsprung weight, etc will probably go elsewhere anyway. I did mine for the gearheads, not the folks looking for the inexpensive solution but worked hard to keep the pricing reasonable, and I think I've done both well.
Anyway, welcome....
Eibach bars aren't OE bars (unless you consider the fact FRPP bars are Eibach and they are stock on a Shelby GT). I don't know if you meant to imply they are stock bars coated red, because that's how it came across and it's incorrect. Stock bars are 34mm front, 20 rear, Eibach are 35/22 as well (rear solid non-adjustable, but bolts to the body not the axle so the unsprung weight is less).
There certainly is no shortage of options for swaybars... And of course we will both figure our respective companies have the better option.
I do my bars to work as I think best, not on price--so anyone wanting to save a few bucks over thinking about how the bars function in terms of unsprung weight, etc will probably go elsewhere anyway. I did mine for the gearheads, not the folks looking for the inexpensive solution but worked hard to keep the pricing reasonable, and I think I've done both well.Anyway, welcome....
02-07-2010, 06:07 AM
#19
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location:
Posts: 1,599
Ths stillen sway bars a good option if you dont want to do the Watt's link. The unsprung mass argument is very important with IRS, but not as much with a live stick axle. With how much the wheels, tires, brakes, axle shafts, axle tubes, and differential weigh, a hollow sway bar doesnt significantly increase the unsprung weight.
02-07-2010, 10:41 PM
#20
Former Sponsor
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,936
I guess you can look at that one of two ways. You have Stillen bars.... so I know you feel that way.
Consider that the more unsprung weight the worse off you are, and it all matters. And fwiw, some IRS's can have more a solid axle (think SN95 IRS), not less. I don't feel your "there is a lot anyway so why does it matter" argument does not hold water when really put the test. The cars stock have a lot of power, why add more? They have decent brakes? Why make them better? They drive decently to many, so why try and improve that? Should someone who is 25 pounds overweight say screw losing 10 pounds what does it matter???? I understand the notion, but it falls under the idea of "good enough", and frankly there is a difference between not caring vs. not mattering.
Consider that the more unsprung weight the worse off you are, and it all matters. And fwiw, some IRS's can have more a solid axle (think SN95 IRS), not less. I don't feel your "there is a lot anyway so why does it matter" argument does not hold water when really put the test. The cars stock have a lot of power, why add more? They have decent brakes? Why make them better? They drive decently to many, so why try and improve that? Should someone who is 25 pounds overweight say screw losing 10 pounds what does it matter???? I understand the notion, but it falls under the idea of "good enough", and frankly there is a difference between not caring vs. not mattering.
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