? on Relocation Brackets and Wheel Hop
02-23-2010, 10:33 PM
#11
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Newark, Delaware
Posts: 1,259
The order of install went:
1. Springs
2. Relo Brackets
3. LCA's
02-24-2010, 08:22 AM
#12
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 198
What causes wheel hop on lowered stangs is the change in angles of the LCA after lowering. Replacing the OEM LCA with an after market piece (non-adjustable) does nothing to change the suspension geometry aside from making it more ridged, which may actually increase wheel hop. The relocation bracket returns the angle of the LCA back to the OEM setting, more or less. No need for relocation brackets if not lowered.
UPC's are mainly necessary on lowered stangs to correct pinion angle, which mostly comes into play when one installs a one-piece DS since you are replacing the OEM 3 angles with the after market 2.
Lowering springs will have no effect on decreasing wheel hop in and of themselves. In fact, lowering springs alone on the stock suspension will cause or significantly contribute to wheel hop because of the change in geometry.
When you lower the car with springs you change the suspension geometry. The LCA, relocation bracket, and adjustable pan hard are necessary to change the basic geometric angles when lowering a car and centering the body over the suspension, not to mention a change in shock / strut for suspension travel.
In my mind, the reason lowering springs are so cheap is because the manufactures know the purchase of the springs leads to the purchase of many other after market parts to correct suspension geometry. Lowering springs are the manufactures come bet. Hope this helps.
UPC's are mainly necessary on lowered stangs to correct pinion angle, which mostly comes into play when one installs a one-piece DS since you are replacing the OEM 3 angles with the after market 2.
Lowering springs will have no effect on decreasing wheel hop in and of themselves. In fact, lowering springs alone on the stock suspension will cause or significantly contribute to wheel hop because of the change in geometry.
When you lower the car with springs you change the suspension geometry. The LCA, relocation bracket, and adjustable pan hard are necessary to change the basic geometric angles when lowering a car and centering the body over the suspension, not to mention a change in shock / strut for suspension travel.
In my mind, the reason lowering springs are so cheap is because the manufactures know the purchase of the springs leads to the purchase of many other after market parts to correct suspension geometry. Lowering springs are the manufactures come bet. Hope this helps.
02-24-2010, 11:13 AM
#13
Former Sponsor
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,936
Ahh, fella's.
I hate to tell you this, but lowering an S197 pretty much kills the wheelhop, it doesn't make it worse. In fact I run two S197's that are lowered, and neither hop (one is a Shelby GT was always lowered, but my 2007 GT hopped like mad stock). The minute I lowered my car , and I didn't use LCA's or brackets--the hop stopped. And if you ask around you'll find that is commonly the case.
When we need a little more we'll go to LCA's. There are various types, some are WAY better than others. I like UMI Roto-joint design and Steeda Billet that use a spherical bearing both more than any other. I still tend not to use LCA brackets because I find they are usually not necessary on any car that is not pretty seriously drag racing and has some power. In fact brackets can hurt the launch on a lower powered car by causing it to bog due to hooking up too well.
It's also not at all true that lowering a car requires an adjustable LCA. Some cars do, that's true--most do not. Again neither of the S197's we run that are lowered have adjustable UCA's. If you want to control your pinion angle then you'd want one, but to say flatly that you need one, just isn't accurate. And remember, I sell parts. Trust me, if something is truly needed I'll let you know. But I'm also self-employed, and as such I find it more important to sell the correct part (or not if the part isn't required for the purpose) than just sell parts.
I hate to tell you this, but lowering an S197 pretty much kills the wheelhop, it doesn't make it worse. In fact I run two S197's that are lowered, and neither hop (one is a Shelby GT was always lowered, but my 2007 GT hopped like mad stock). The minute I lowered my car , and I didn't use LCA's or brackets--the hop stopped. And if you ask around you'll find that is commonly the case.
When we need a little more we'll go to LCA's. There are various types, some are WAY better than others. I like UMI Roto-joint design and Steeda Billet that use a spherical bearing both more than any other. I still tend not to use LCA brackets because I find they are usually not necessary on any car that is not pretty seriously drag racing and has some power. In fact brackets can hurt the launch on a lower powered car by causing it to bog due to hooking up too well.
It's also not at all true that lowering a car requires an adjustable LCA. Some cars do, that's true--most do not. Again neither of the S197's we run that are lowered have adjustable UCA's. If you want to control your pinion angle then you'd want one, but to say flatly that you need one, just isn't accurate. And remember, I sell parts. Trust me, if something is truly needed I'll let you know. But I'm also self-employed, and as such I find it more important to sell the correct part (or not if the part isn't required for the purpose) than just sell parts.
Last edited by Sam Strano; 02-24-2010 at 11:15 AM.
02-24-2010, 11:16 AM
#14
5th Gear Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 4,536
the only time you will need relocation brackets is on a lowered car.
From ford the lower control arm is parallel to the ground. when the lower control arm is parallel to the ground you get the best of both worlds, less wheel hop/traction. When you add on a set of lowering springs the body of the car gets lowered to the ground, BUT the axle stays at the same height. And everyone knows that the front part of the LCA is attached to the body, and the back of the LCA is attached to the axle. So now the lower control arm is pointing up to the axle after you install lowering springs. Also, every action has a equal but opposite reaction. So when you step on the gas, the rear wheels push the axle forward, then the axle pushes the body of the car forward via the LCAs, the lower control arms will push back at the axle. Remember that you have lowering springs on the car, and the LCAs are not parallel anymore, they are angled up to the axle. This will push the axle up and reduce traction. All in all, relocation brackets are to change the instant center of the rear suspension back to normal.
If you want to reduce wheel hop, and you are on stock springs. All you need is a good set of LCAs and an UCA.
stock, my wheel hop was maybe a 4 or 5 out of 10. not as bad as some say they have.
now(1.5 inches lower, LCAs, Pan bar, brace, pinion angle back at -2), and i have zero hop, nada, zip.
From ford the lower control arm is parallel to the ground. when the lower control arm is parallel to the ground you get the best of both worlds, less wheel hop/traction. When you add on a set of lowering springs the body of the car gets lowered to the ground, BUT the axle stays at the same height. And everyone knows that the front part of the LCA is attached to the body, and the back of the LCA is attached to the axle. So now the lower control arm is pointing up to the axle after you install lowering springs. Also, every action has a equal but opposite reaction. So when you step on the gas, the rear wheels push the axle forward, then the axle pushes the body of the car forward via the LCAs, the lower control arms will push back at the axle. Remember that you have lowering springs on the car, and the LCAs are not parallel anymore, they are angled up to the axle. This will push the axle up and reduce traction. All in all, relocation brackets are to change the instant center of the rear suspension back to normal.
If you want to reduce wheel hop, and you are on stock springs. All you need is a good set of LCAs and an UCA.
stock, my wheel hop was maybe a 4 or 5 out of 10. not as bad as some say they have.
now(1.5 inches lower, LCAs, Pan bar, brace, pinion angle back at -2), and i have zero hop, nada, zip.
Last edited by StickShifty; 02-24-2010 at 11:26 AM.
02-24-2010, 04:37 PM
#15
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,692
So general information you might find useful rear the rear end arrangement on our cars
http://www.cherod.com/mustang/HowTo/LCA%20_adj.htm
http://www.cherod.com/mustang/HowTo/LCA%20_adj.htm
03-14-2010, 01:11 PM
#16
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NM
Posts: 1,039
2007 GT/CS
Ahh, fella's.
I hate to tell you this, but lowering an S197 pretty much kills the wheelhop, it doesn't make it worse. In fact I run two S197's that are lowered, and neither hop (one is a Shelby GT was always lowered, but my 2007 GT hopped like mad stock). The minute I lowered my car , and I didn't use LCA's or brackets--the hop stopped. And if you ask around you'll find that is commonly the case.
When we need a little more we'll go to LCA's. There are various types, some are WAY better than others. I like UMI Roto-joint design and Steeda Billet that use a spherical bearing both more than any other. I still tend not to use LCA brackets because I find they are usually not necessary on any car that is not pretty seriously drag racing and has some power. In fact brackets can hurt the launch on a lower powered car by causing it to bog due to hooking up too well.
It's also not at all true that lowering a car requires an adjustable LCA. Some cars do, that's true--most do not. Again neither of the S197's we run that are lowered have adjustable UCA's. If you want to control your pinion angle then you'd want one, but to say flatly that you need one, just isn't accurate. And remember, I sell parts. Trust me, if something is truly needed I'll let you know. But I'm also self-employed, and as such I find it more important to sell the correct part (or not if the part isn't required for the purpose) than just sell parts.
I hate to tell you this, but lowering an S197 pretty much kills the wheelhop, it doesn't make it worse. In fact I run two S197's that are lowered, and neither hop (one is a Shelby GT was always lowered, but my 2007 GT hopped like mad stock). The minute I lowered my car , and I didn't use LCA's or brackets--the hop stopped. And if you ask around you'll find that is commonly the case.
When we need a little more we'll go to LCA's. There are various types, some are WAY better than others. I like UMI Roto-joint design and Steeda Billet that use a spherical bearing both more than any other. I still tend not to use LCA brackets because I find they are usually not necessary on any car that is not pretty seriously drag racing and has some power. In fact brackets can hurt the launch on a lower powered car by causing it to bog due to hooking up too well.
It's also not at all true that lowering a car requires an adjustable LCA. Some cars do, that's true--most do not. Again neither of the S197's we run that are lowered have adjustable UCA's. If you want to control your pinion angle then you'd want one, but to say flatly that you need one, just isn't accurate. And remember, I sell parts. Trust me, if something is truly needed I'll let you know. But I'm also self-employed, and as such I find it more important to sell the correct part (or not if the part isn't required for the purpose) than just sell parts.
Awesome info but this woman still has questions... Sam I emailed you today so after racing I hope for a reply..
I have an 07 GT/CS with some serious hp. My wheel hop will rattle your brain and bolts off the car... Ive read everything I could find on wheel hop from adjusting ride height to weld on relo brackets.
Specs: Teksid block, 76mm Turbo, Steel crank, Forged probe pistons, Polished Compressor Housing, Comp cam, Tial 50mm Blow off Valve, 75lb injectors, SVT Headers, Methanol injection, Dual GT500 fuel pump, Spec stage 3 clutch, AEM "Tru-Boost" Combination Boost Controller/Boost Gauge, Steel driveshaft, AEM Electric
Fuel Pressure Gauge, Hallman Manual Boost Controller, GT500 instrument cluster,
Polished coolant reservoir, K&N Air filter, Optimum battery, body all stock.
Well it has alot to do with how much hp your laying to the pavement.
My 07 was dyno'd last summer By the Dyno Edge in Albuquerque NM @ 606RWH at 14psi.
Car still has stock suspension wheels and tires.
But it is a California Special. Car sits 1.5 inches lower than stock GT. I have lowering springs, but I live in an area where lowered cars have hell. Need info on illiminating my hop with the possibility of leaving my stock ride height. Car is street/strip. But havent been able to make not 1 good pass at the track because of loss of control in the rear.
Last edited by MelloYello; 03-14-2010 at 02:36 PM.
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