peetiewonder

leave your caster alone 7degrees is more than enough.
camber run like 1.5-2 degrees of camber
toe i would guess zero toe would be pretty nice.

my current setup is 1.6 camber, factory toe (slightly in i think), but im thinking about going to zero toe

Just1Guy

You are working against a heavy front end and overboosted power steering. Geeting the rest of the stuff dialed in is imparative for good feel.

• What size tires are you running on the front ???/??-18?

• Which GY F1 tire? Do you have a link to GoodYear's site or Tire rack. I think GY has a ton of different "F1" tires. I just want to make sure we are talking apples and apples.

• Have you had the car 4 wheel aligned? By any chance know what specs it was set up at?

• Do you have camber bolts?

• Caster Camber plates?

• What size rear tires?

• OEM GT500 wheels on the rear right?

Argonaut

LOLLLLLL....Driveshaft! Thats a good one. I sure hope that guy is joking.

FakeSnake - why do you think a bumpsteer kit will change the behavior? Do you experience bump steer? I doubt it. Likewise, what's your reasoning for new LCAs to tackle a steering feel problem? An adjustable PHbar is needed *if* rear end is not centered, but otherwise isn't going to do much for steering feel.

Castor is not adjustable on these cars. Likewise, the rear end has no alignment adjustability (aside from aforementioned adjustable PHB). For camber adjustment you will need parts (bolts, plates, etc). The only readily adjustible setting is toe. And thats something you can adjust on your own. It simple to measure and simple to change. Do an experiment - mark the current position of everything on your tie rods, then move each side out a full turn and go try it. If you don't like the result change it back. It really only takes 30 minutes or so to reset the toe.

BAMFingOh10

I'm not joking. He wanted better steering FEEL. It's lighter and can turn the numbers involved in the arc calc. at the triangle of arcs (crossmember to tie rods). What do you think directly transfers force to the rack? Have you ever seen one?

I also think 2 degrees of camber is too much, especially for the passenger side.

Edt:
Also IMHO bumpsteer kit is less important than front arm relocation.
Bumpsteer kit is highly recommended w/ a FAR. It won't fix the feel - FAR will, (just the way the geometry controlled by the UCAs responds to the roads, IF your car is lowered more than 3/4")

Norm Peterson

I don't doubt that he might want to improve steering feel. But I also fail to see how installing an aluminum driveshaft will in any way be a "cure" for any lack of it. Any more than tossing an equal amount of weight from other things out.


I'm trying desperately hard to figure out what you're trying to say here. From the driver's end of things, it's the steering column; from the wheels it's the steering arms. Making any of those things lighter isn't likely to improve feel, as there's not that much weight involved.

For most daily driving, it probably is. For dedicated track running or autocross, maybe not.

Control arm pivot relocation changes the way the car feels as you go into a turn, but not particularly the steering feel itself. Steering "feel" issues have more to do with things like (actual) scrub radius and self-aligning torque developed by the front tires.

And also on the design details of the power assist mechanism. In at least some cars, a firmer torsion bar can be fitted into the power steering unit, which feeds back a little more to the driver (and makes him work a little harder). I'm not sure how a power R&P might be "tuned" to accomplish the same thing, but one thing I WOULDN'T do is slow the pump down or restrict the pressure side orifice from the pump itself - you'll end up with "pump catch" where the pump can't provide fluid volume to the rack as fast as you're requesting it. You'd think the steering "froze up" on you or that you somehow ran the reservoir out of fluid and the pump started sucking air.


BTW, there is only one UCA on the entire car here, and it isn't up front.


Norm

BAMFingOh10

Since nimbleness is a feature of steering, based on torque transfer and weight displacement just as much as bumpsteer or shocks, a driveshaft would improve the overall feel of the steering. I don't think this is more important than correcting the problems lowering a car creates.

Any time you lower a car over 3/4," your camber increases and your tread wears down more readily. The lower tie rids on the bumpsteer kit sit exactly parallel with the LCAs and keep the tires from tucking under too much.

My bad, I meant FCA not UCAs. One of the first things people note about steering feel is how the weight of the car moves. When you lower the car, the control arm pivot location must be raised to compensate for the lowered roll center. Without harmony (central arc is close as possible) the vehicle's like rotating a dynamic mass with a point that knocks the base angle of every arc off.

Just1Guy

What he said


Again, what he said with an additional

Just1Guy

I can’t believe I just read that and it isn’t a joke!



It started strong and quickly descended into wrong, wrong, wrong and um……..wrong.


On paper true. In the real world during anything short of front of the pack Koni Challenge pace racing completely undetectable.

Norm Peterson

Any time you lower it at all, camber changes (easily seen if you've got a camber curve in front of you). But negative camber settings aren't as bad as toe out, and front-steer strut cars generally go toward toe-out as camber goes more negative.

Whether the tie rods are "exactly parallel with the LCAs" would depend on things like outer tie rod end pivot height, ball joint height, and more than likely with some consideration given to all the little compliances in the suspension (bushings, brackets, steering arms, the knuckles themselves, etc., etc.). I'm picking on this because if you don't have a set of really good pivot point dimensions to work from, you shouldn't be making absolute statements like that. Keep in mind that as far as suspension kinematics is concerned, the physical appearance or shape of a control arm is at best only a general indication. At worst, downright misleading.

FWIW, my '08 runs about -1.2° camber, and my current autocross car rides around somewhere past -2.2° (and doesn't appear to be chewing its street tires up).


Except for fluids that slosh around in their containers and passengers/cargo that aren't strapped in tightly enough, car "weight" (mass, actually) does not move at all. You're probably thinking of "load transfer", as it is properly known.

That sounds like roll center correction. Done for reasons other than steering feel. Think understeer/oversteer balance and how it shifts as the car rolls.


???


The furthest I can stretch this is that during all-out acceleration you'll get a little more rearward load transfer, meaning that the front wheel loads will go slightly lighter, as might the steering feel. Note that under this very specific condition, handling as it is conventionally understood by people who turn corners becomes immaterial. Note also that lighter steering does not necessarily mean better.


Norm

fakesnake

Thank you everyone for your very thoughtful responses. Steering feel is obviously a very complicated issue made only more so by adding new parts to the equation.

And in response to just1guy, rolling stock and wheels are stock GT 500 front and rear, no camber bolts or plates other than OEM Ford, and I believe the car was 4-wheel aligned but no idea as to specs.

I am beginning to feel it is just the way new Mustangs are supposed to feel.