DPE

Time to stop lurking and start posting! To keep this as brief as possible, I'm strongly considering a 2010 GT that will primarily be a fun car to take out in the twisties and hit the local(ish) road courses. Myself and a few track-buddies have been through a number of cars in the last few years (WRX, STI, RX8, MS6, 350Z, Mazdaspeed6, E46 M3), and there just aren't many that don't seem to have some significant vice once you start really getting after it on track. For example, the WRX has weak hubs/bearings that cause horrific pad knockback if you fit a decent BBK with fixed calipers and add front end grip, and the Mazdaspeed6 has the unfortunate habit of eating power steering pumps of all things.

I have over 3000 track miles between Heartland Park, MAM and Hallett, and am an instructor level driver. I wouldn't dare teach anyone to drive on track and learn my bad habits, and by no means am I suggesting I'm a budding Andretti, but I tend to be around 9.5/10ths most of the time out there and usually run comfortably in the 'fast' run group.

The car will be used for track days only; no autox or drag, and no formal competition. I have searched quite a bit and found nothing so far that makes me fearful of some major component not being up to snuff. And I know that brakes will be iffy for me if I keep them stock-sized and obviously I'll run a track-oriented tire not to mention do your basic Sam Strano approved suspension upgrades, but what I'm asking is if there is any significant problem that shows up on this car with the track use I describe.

Point being, I'm just damn tired of changing cars every couple years only to uncover some difficult-to-solve issue with what I just bought when I get to the track. The RX-8 was awesome on track and is my second choice, but honestly I kinda like torque and am due for some American Muscle given I've never had anything of the sort in 16 years of driving performance cars. The price is right on the 2010s, and while I'd love me a 5.0 I don't want to spend quite that much. And I'd be so much faster than my friends on track it wouldn't be as much fun .

So, 2010 GT with a 3.73 rear end, stock brakes for the first year with Carbotech XP10s at all corners and brake ducts (and Motul or ATE fluid), some crusty 17" wheels I have that'll fit and perhaps Dunlop Star Specs, and a Koni shock/Steeda spring/Steeda front upper mount setup on the suspension for starters. Is this going to work for me? Eventually I'll go 18s, Brembos up front, Fays2 Watts link, etc., but can't do it all and buy the car too this year .

And last, if anyone is still reading, many thanks to the posters in this particular forum. Sam of course, but also Sleeper08, Norm, Argonaut, and several others; definitely some great info in here!

Regards,

Phil

Sleeper_08

Phil

It sounds like you have a good plan and done your research.

The only failure I have had in 3 years is an alternator that was replaced under warranty - touch wood. It may have been partly due to having the mounting arrangement modified as part of the Roush SC install.

My feeling is that Ford knows these cars are going to be used hard and the Engineers have a little more influence over the bean counters than normal.

Welcome to the group.

PS - I also considered a 360Z and RX8 when buying the Mustang and torque won the battle.

Argonaut

- With your experience you will probably want to upgrade the brakes relatively quickly.
- The seats stink, you will slide all over. For the time being plan on getting a CGLock. You will eventually want some better seats (After you have rubbed the side of your left knee raw bracing it against the speaker's cheese grater).
- I have 3.73 gears and I'd say they are 'probably' a good idea but it depends on your tracks. You will top out under 130 on long straights, especially if you have tires shorter than stock. On the other hand, the added torque is nice.
- I'm not sure about the 2010 but the 50-09 have severe understeer, you may want to add some adjustable sways to your plan.
- The rear differential has a vent at the top and it can spew oil all over the rear end. I've known guys who have added a catch can sort of arrangement or if you really want to take care of it Rehagen sells a diff cooler kit
- Get the adjustable camber plates, you will really want some negative camber
- For HPDE usage the stock wheel bearings seem to hold up well. The cooling system also works well (which is surprising, V8s generate a lot of heat and most stock systems can't handle it. Just talk to the Corvette guys)
- All-in-all it seems to be a fairly low cost, low maintenance track car

I've driven 350Z and RX8 and, while they are very nice cars, I instantly missed the torque...there is no substitute.

Welcome Phil - hope you get one and join us here regularly with tales of your track exploits. Brad.

DPE

Thanks for the replies. Glad to hear there aren't any major flaws. I kinda figured a Mustang was built more for this kind of stuff than most of the other cars I've had, but it's good to hear confirmation.

I'm used to bad seats and sliding around, so that's nothing new. Nor is rubbing my left knee raw on a speaker grille; RX-8 has that same problem . Might invest in a CG lock. It'll still be a road car and my wife will drive it to work from time to time (wouldn't you if your other option was a minivan? I have a company truck so it won't be a DD for me), so I doubt I'll swap seats and lose the side airbag. Perhaps down the road though.

Looking at the gearing, for the tracks I run on the 3.73 should be fine. Shouldn't be going over 130mph anywhere without major mods. My most recent test drive was in a 2010 GT with the 3.31 gear; that was just too tall no matter how you cut it. I'm sure it's nice for gas mileage, but to redline 3rd at 120? Just felt like it really blunted the engine at higher speeds. Also, the 3.73 in the 2010 supposedly comes with 'retuned stability control', which I can only hope would mean less intrusive. On track I'll just shut it off, but for driving in the twisties or when car swapping with friends it would be nice to be able to leave a safety net on but not have it be annoying.

Definitely will end up with GT500 Brembos, but probably won't splurge right away. I'd rather get the suspension dialed in first, given from what I've read I can make the OEM brakes work for a season. With how amazingly cheap it is to get new OEM front brakes (calipers, rotors and pads for $169 from newtakeoff?!?!), I can go through a couple sets this season before spending the money on Brembos and the necessary wheels and tires for 2012.

Given it'll be lowered, won't the Steeda HD upper mounts provide sufficient negative camber? Or do I need proper camber/caster plates? Seemed like most folks were getting away with the Steedas. As for balance, the 2010 I drove didn't have what I'd call severe understeer, but I also didn't push it like I will be on track. Swaybars are a cheap and easy add-on; I'll get a pair from Sam if deemed necessary. They're already on my mod list down by the Fays2 and the intake and tune from Brenspeed or AM .

Anyway, I'm looking very forward to it. I won't say it's 100% going to happen, but we're certainly at 99%. Just a matter of the right car coming along and getting the right deal on it at this point. Finding a lightly used 2010 with a 3.73 gear takes a little searching. Might hold off a few more weeks so my wife can take advantage of the MS6 in the snow too; AWD has been nice to have around the Kansas City area this winter. We'll miss it, but I'll get some snows for the van and she'll be fine.

Thanks again for the replies. I am officially sold!

Phil

Norm Peterson

The Steeda mounts provide at least ±1° worth of adjustment from their midpoint (I've heard as much as ±1.75°). Camber goes more negative at a rate of about 0.5°/inch of drop, and the OE middle of the range is already -0.75°. Some cars are a little better off than others with respect to negative camber - I'm at about
-1.8° unlowered with the Steeda mounts set about in the middle of their range of adjustment.

When you install your struts, you can probably sneak a little negative camber by taking up all the small amounts of bolt hole clearances in that direction.


Norm

Nuke

After being on this forum for a bit over 3 1/2 years, I can say that the alternator issue that sleeper 08 mentioned is one of the few "weak links" that seems to frequently surface about the S197's. A poor charging system comprised of a questionable alternator and garbage OE battery. The 10's haven't seen as much road/time as the 05 thru 09's but the '10 is the same under the hood with the exception of the tune for the additional 15 crank HP.

Although most of the TSB's associated with the earlier S197's have been resolved by '10, you may want to aquaint yourself with the list in the sticky in the 2005-2011 main forum.

DPE

I will have a look at the TSB list, though hopefully most of that stuff is weeded out by 2010. I've read a bit about the alternator, but that sounded like more of a general problem than a track-induced problem. And while annoying, that's one I can deal with fairly easily. Whatever I get should have quite a bit of warranty left, and if not I've changed a few alternators in my day so I'm sure I could manage.

What do folks run for alignment on track? I guess the rear is, uh, fixed, but is -2.0 to -2.5 degrees of camber sufficent up front? And is zero toe the way to go? I can look this stuff up of course, just easier to ask and I'm feeling lazy. Sounds like the Steeda mounts could provide that much negative camber on a car that's lowered an inch.

And Nuke, I didn't mention you by name earlier, but I've been both informed and entertained by some of your posts as well .

Phil

foolio2k4

Reliability pretty good with these cars. No engine or brake issues ive had. Just normal pad and fluid changes.

Shocks need changing though.

Sleeper_08

With the Steeda HD mounts, Steeda Competition springs and the extra weight of the SC I can get a max - 1.75 negative camber at the front. This is what I run for both the track and the street.

The toe is set slightly in, 1/8" I think, to keep it straight when running 130+ up the back straight at Mosport and also as my car is a DD.

I wasn't aware that the alternator was a more widely experienced problem. Hopefully the new one replaced under warranty is better.

Norm Peterson

"Fixed"?

I'll bet that it is not exactly zero point zero.

There are ways of changing it. Not particularly easy or for the faint-hearted, but they're there if you're serious enough.


Norm