FRPP Brake Ducts
04-20-2011, 03:22 PM
#21
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Toronto
Posts: 155
I am getting the Brembos this year on the 2011 GT. I am pretty easy on the brakes so don't expect any cooling issues. Like the idea of saying "Brembos" and the looks. Up in the air on the cooling hoses though.
Did I not read somewhere that the right side CS/GT cooling hose runs close to some part of the engine (air conditioning condenser?) and therefore, the right rotor actually runs considerable hotter than the left? His contention was that the hoses were not suitable for the new car. Anyone here have any input or can check it out next track day realizing that I assume everyone runs with the air off? Might make difference on the street.
Cheers.
Did I not read somewhere that the right side CS/GT cooling hose runs close to some part of the engine (air conditioning condenser?) and therefore, the right rotor actually runs considerable hotter than the left? His contention was that the hoses were not suitable for the new car. Anyone here have any input or can check it out next track day realizing that I assume everyone runs with the air off? Might make difference on the street.
Cheers.
The ducts are inside the fenders, so no real contact with the a/c condenser. I couldn't say with any certainty that the driver or passenger side would cool more effectively. Next time I have the front wheels off I'll take some pictures of what I thought was a very good installation.
Even if the right disc runs hotter than the left, it's got to be cooler than no ducts at all. I guess there's a possibility that the car will pull towards the harder braking side.
Colin, DaSilva racing in Pickering did the installation for me, you may be familiar with their work although they are more of a drag racing shop.
04-20-2011, 03:48 PM
#22
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Ontario
Posts: 238
Ansibe: Did Joe require removal of the fascia to install the hoses? Or did he do everything at once?
BTW, there is a long running thread at corner carver's site that claims non-cooled brakes run cooler. Check it out and let us know what you think. Maybe some others can comment on their findings after reading?
Cheers.
BTW, there is a long running thread at corner carver's site that claims non-cooled brakes run cooler. Check it out and let us know what you think. Maybe some others can comment on their findings after reading?
Cheers.
04-20-2011, 04:33 PM
#23
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,692
"Brembos" is cool. So is "PZero."
Colin, DaSilva racing in Pickering did the installation for me, you may be familiar with their work although they are more of a drag racing shop.
Colin, DaSilva racing in Pickering did the installation for me, you may be familiar with their work although they are more of a drag racing shop.
This Sunday we are getting the car ready for the season - new rotors/pads/fluid and tighten up all the bolts. I've aready had the NT01s flipped on the rims.
My first track day of the season is planned for TMP on Sunday May 1 - provided it doesn't rain.
04-20-2011, 06:40 PM
#24
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Toronto
Posts: 155
Ansibe: Did Joe require removal of the fascia to install the hoses? Or did he do everything at once?
BTW, there is a long running thread at corner carver's site that claims non-cooled brakes run cooler. Check it out and let us know what you think. Maybe some others can comment on their findings after reading?
Cheers.
BTW, there is a long running thread at corner carver's site that claims non-cooled brakes run cooler. Check it out and let us know what you think. Maybe some others can comment on their findings after reading?
Cheers.
I couldn't find the thread at corner carvers, in fact I couldn't even find the site! I'll keep looking, but I'm skeptical. Airflow aids cooling unless the air is hotter than the disc, which is pretty unlikely. The Boss LS has ducts as standard, which has got to count for something.
04-21-2011, 07:46 AM
#25
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Ontario
Posts: 238
He removed the fascia first, but we had to because the GT fascia doesn't have the necessary holes. I *think* it could be done with the CS fascia in place, but space would be tight.
I couldn't find the thread at corner carvers, in fact I couldn't even find the site! I'll keep looking, but I'm skeptical. Airflow aids cooling unless the air is hotter than the disc, which is pretty unlikely. The Boss LS has ducts as standard, which has got to count for something.
I couldn't find the thread at corner carvers, in fact I couldn't even find the site! I'll keep looking, but I'm skeptical. Airflow aids cooling unless the air is hotter than the disc, which is pretty unlikely. The Boss LS has ducts as standard, which has got to count for something.
I apologize for mentioning the cooling thing again. Realized I had brought it up before. Just ignore.
Cheers.
04-21-2011, 11:06 AM
#26
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Kansas
Posts: 178
Just to clarify a couple things, pushing the Advance Trac button once turns off traction control but leaves stability control on. So you can indeed run that way. Two quick presses with your foot on the brake (but you can be moving) puts you in sport mode, where both systems are left on but at a higher threshold before intervention. Then to shut it all off you press and hold for 5 seconds with your foot on the brake and sitting stationary.
And you can connect the duct hoses to the GT/CS airdam with the airdam installed. I think it would be almost impossible to put the clamps on like that, but I'm running with no clamps on the airdam inlet side and they stay in place just fine.
I did not search for it, but I'm hitting a logical wall when trying to imagine how brakes would run cooler without ducts on a race track. I can't even begin to imagine what the rationale is. Rotors can get to glowing temps on track, which I think requires something on the order of 1000 degrees F. Even at 500 degrees, ambient air is never much more than 125 degrees near a track surface and the time it spends in the 4 feet of hose going from the airdam to the back of the rotor can't allow enough time for it to heat significantly beyond ambient even if it were running next to a hot engine. Which on the Mustang, it isn't. Anyway, I'm not the gospel, but there's a reason people run brake ducts on track and experience suggests it's because their brakes run cooler that way.
And last, JAJ mentioned in another thread that he was consistently getting rotor temps 50 degrees higher on the passenger side vs. the driver side (and he does run ducts). On the passenger side the hose makes a sharp bend around the washer fluid bottle, and it does pass by an AC line pretty close, but it's not otherwise restricted. He was also running on a counterclockwise track and trail-braking, which would tend to heat up the right side front rotor more than the left. So either the bend on the passenger side reduces airflow to the rotor and it runs a bit hotter, or the fact he was on a CCW track and was trail braking caused it to run a bit hotter, or a combination of both. But I think it's pretty safe to say that the brakes ran cooler overall than they would have without ducting of any kind
.
And you can connect the duct hoses to the GT/CS airdam with the airdam installed. I think it would be almost impossible to put the clamps on like that, but I'm running with no clamps on the airdam inlet side and they stay in place just fine.
I did not search for it, but I'm hitting a logical wall when trying to imagine how brakes would run cooler without ducts on a race track. I can't even begin to imagine what the rationale is. Rotors can get to glowing temps on track, which I think requires something on the order of 1000 degrees F. Even at 500 degrees, ambient air is never much more than 125 degrees near a track surface and the time it spends in the 4 feet of hose going from the airdam to the back of the rotor can't allow enough time for it to heat significantly beyond ambient even if it were running next to a hot engine. Which on the Mustang, it isn't. Anyway, I'm not the gospel, but there's a reason people run brake ducts on track and experience suggests it's because their brakes run cooler that way.
And last, JAJ mentioned in another thread that he was consistently getting rotor temps 50 degrees higher on the passenger side vs. the driver side (and he does run ducts). On the passenger side the hose makes a sharp bend around the washer fluid bottle, and it does pass by an AC line pretty close, but it's not otherwise restricted. He was also running on a counterclockwise track and trail-braking, which would tend to heat up the right side front rotor more than the left. So either the bend on the passenger side reduces airflow to the rotor and it runs a bit hotter, or the fact he was on a CCW track and was trail braking caused it to run a bit hotter, or a combination of both. But I think it's pretty safe to say that the brakes ran cooler overall than they would have without ducting of any kind
.
04-21-2011, 10:25 PM
#28
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 645
I shimmed the washer bottle away from the frame which allows the passenger side brake duct to run without being squeezed. You can see the brake duct mounting plate on the back of the disc. I don't have any pictures at the moment with them mounted up but I cut away the extra plastic around the duct so I could get clamps on the CS/Boss valance.
04-21-2011, 11:19 PM
#29
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Kansas
Posts: 178
^^
That, sir, is good information. I was wondering if you could shim that out a bit as it seemed like there was room, but now I need not wonder. I'll have to try that myself, along with cutting all the foglight bracketry crap off of the inside of the airdam. Thanks for the info there.
That, sir, is good information. I was wondering if you could shim that out a bit as it seemed like there was room, but now I need not wonder. I'll have to try that myself, along with cutting all the foglight bracketry crap off of the inside of the airdam. Thanks for the info there.
04-21-2011, 11:29 PM
#30
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: BC
Posts: 244
908 - Thanks for posting the photo! That's very helpful!
My brake hose is jammed between the bottle and the A/C line, and it restricts the flow somewhat.
An important factor in the install is getting the air hose out of the way of the front tire. On the driver's side, I removed the baffle that blocks the airway and then hooked the hose to a wire loop that connects with the brace that holds up the radiator. On the pax side, it's zip-tied to the brace itself. If you don't get it far enough out of the way, the tire will hit the hose (I have 275/35x18's).
When I tidy up the pax side and relocate the washer bottle, I also have to move the hose a bit. The plastic coating on my SS brake lines is showing marks from rubbing against the hose.
A note about the clamps, I attached the hoses to the valence before I installed it, so the clamps fit without any issues and without any trimming.
My brake hose is jammed between the bottle and the A/C line, and it restricts the flow somewhat.
An important factor in the install is getting the air hose out of the way of the front tire. On the driver's side, I removed the baffle that blocks the airway and then hooked the hose to a wire loop that connects with the brace that holds up the radiator. On the pax side, it's zip-tied to the brace itself. If you don't get it far enough out of the way, the tire will hit the hose (I have 275/35x18's).
When I tidy up the pax side and relocate the washer bottle, I also have to move the hose a bit. The plastic coating on my SS brake lines is showing marks from rubbing against the hose.
A note about the clamps, I attached the hoses to the valence before I installed it, so the clamps fit without any issues and without any trimming.
I shimmed the washer bottle away from the frame which allows the passenger side brake duct to run without being squeezed. You can see the brake duct mounting plate on the back of the disc. I don't have any pictures at the moment with them mounted up but I cut away the extra plastic around the duct so I could get clamps on the CS/Boss valance.