to lower or not to lower???
06-26-2011, 12:38 PM
#11
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Acworth, GA
Posts: 12,260
Upper will be fine, lower will be fine. But you are going to want to get LCA's and some relocation brackets for them as with it being lowered your control arms will point up on the axle side instead of down, therefor it won't plant the axle like its supposed to and thats what the relocation brackets are for!
06-27-2011, 06:14 AM
#13
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: state of confusion
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Stock LCAs and UCA are good enough for most peoples' street driving, unless you're having some wheelhop difficulties (which is really just a control arm bushing issue, not about the arm itself).
Assuming that you're keeping the OE arms, when you lower the car, you really should loosen the control arm bolts, settle the car at the new ride height, and re-torque them. This will extend the life of the bushings. It should not be necessary to remove the nuts, and a drop of Locktite dripped down onto the threads behind each nut would be a good idea.
Relocating brackets may or may not be necessary, and can be added separately without doing work that duplicates what you'd do for just the rear springs and shocks. The holes in most relo brackets are located more with dragstrip duty in mind and may be a little too low for best overall street behavior (if you drive the corners somewhat harder than average traffic, the car can threaten to get tail-happy on you, and usually that sort of surprise isn't welcome).
Norm
Assuming that you're keeping the OE arms, when you lower the car, you really should loosen the control arm bolts, settle the car at the new ride height, and re-torque them. This will extend the life of the bushings. It should not be necessary to remove the nuts, and a drop of Locktite dripped down onto the threads behind each nut would be a good idea.
Relocating brackets may or may not be necessary, and can be added separately without doing work that duplicates what you'd do for just the rear springs and shocks. The holes in most relo brackets are located more with dragstrip duty in mind and may be a little too low for best overall street behavior (if you drive the corners somewhat harder than average traffic, the car can threaten to get tail-happy on you, and usually that sort of surprise isn't welcome).
Norm
06-27-2011, 09:15 AM
#14
Stock LCAs and UCA are good enough for most peoples' street driving, unless you're having some wheelhop difficulties (which is really just a control arm bushing issue, not about the arm itself).
Assuming that you're keeping the OE arms, when you lower the car, you really should loosen the control arm bolts, settle the car at the new ride height, and re-torque them. This will extend the life of the bushings. It should not be necessary to remove the nuts, and a drop of Locktite dripped down onto the threads behind each nut would be a good idea.
Relocating brackets may or may not be necessary, and can be added separately without doing work that duplicates what you'd do for just the rear springs and shocks. The holes in most relo brackets are located more with dragstrip duty in mind and may be a little too low for best overall street behavior (if you drive the corners somewhat harder than average traffic, the car can threaten to get tail-happy on you, and usually that sort of surprise isn't welcome).
Norm
Assuming that you're keeping the OE arms, when you lower the car, you really should loosen the control arm bolts, settle the car at the new ride height, and re-torque them. This will extend the life of the bushings. It should not be necessary to remove the nuts, and a drop of Locktite dripped down onto the threads behind each nut would be a good idea.
Relocating brackets may or may not be necessary, and can be added separately without doing work that duplicates what you'd do for just the rear springs and shocks. The holes in most relo brackets are located more with dragstrip duty in mind and may be a little too low for best overall street behavior (if you drive the corners somewhat harder than average traffic, the car can threaten to get tail-happy on you, and usually that sort of surprise isn't welcome).
Norm
Thank you everyone for all the help so far! I tend to have a lot of questions and sometimes a little hard time understanding.
06-27-2011, 11:15 AM
#15
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: state of confusion
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Relo brackets will give you more "bite" for the initial launch from a dead stop. Your rear tires get 'planted' a little quicker, and you won't get wheelspin as easily. That's the benefit, if you're into that sort of thing.
Relo brackets also alter the rear axle "steer geometry", usually toward oversteer (more tail-happy), which isn't so nice. Yes, the rear axle does do a little steering of its own. Not a lot, but it's there, and in mild to moderate driving, you probably won't notice this (shouldn't, anyway). During abrupt maneuvers and enthusiastic driving it can sneak up on you and catch you by surprise if you don't know that it can happen.
Both of the above effects vary with any amount that the car is lowered from its OE ride height, and it turns out that a little downward LCA relocation at the axle can be a good thing all around with a lowered car. Like many "fine tuning" things, however, it is entirely possible to overdo this.
Norm
Relo brackets also alter the rear axle "steer geometry", usually toward oversteer (more tail-happy), which isn't so nice. Yes, the rear axle does do a little steering of its own. Not a lot, but it's there, and in mild to moderate driving, you probably won't notice this (shouldn't, anyway). During abrupt maneuvers and enthusiastic driving it can sneak up on you and catch you by surprise if you don't know that it can happen.
Both of the above effects vary with any amount that the car is lowered from its OE ride height, and it turns out that a little downward LCA relocation at the axle can be a good thing all around with a lowered car. Like many "fine tuning" things, however, it is entirely possible to overdo this.
Norm
Last edited by Norm Peterson; 06-27-2011 at 11:20 AM.
06-27-2011, 01:56 PM
#17
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: state of confusion
Posts: 7,635
It varies with the amount of car lowering, what the individual driver is comfortable with, and how hard he drives his car. A setup that feels "too nervous, too often" is not a setup that is enjoyable to drive.
The stock axle side LCA pivot height is pretty good as far as axle steer is concerned - for a reasonably smooth driver. If/when you fit into that category, you'd probably like an axle-side LCA pivot relocation about equal to the amount you lower the car.
If you lower the car mildly and leave the LCAs and their pivot points entirely alone, the car will understeer a little more and typically won't like to do slaloms and sudden lane changes as well, which also means it'll be a little more tolerant of minor driver clumsiness/carelessness.
If you're a hardcore straight-line acceleration guy who never, ever takes corners very hard, you could probably live very easily with 50% more LCA relocation than lowering.
If you need or want something that's less sensitive/less demanding of you to stay on top of during episodes of hard cornering, you'd probably be better off if you could get less LCA relocating than drop (guessing maybe half an inch less relo than lowering), and you wouldn't be giving up all that much launch bite. Whether you can actually get LCA relo holes that are no more than 1" lower is an entirely separate matter.
Norm
The stock axle side LCA pivot height is pretty good as far as axle steer is concerned - for a reasonably smooth driver. If/when you fit into that category, you'd probably like an axle-side LCA pivot relocation about equal to the amount you lower the car.
If you lower the car mildly and leave the LCAs and their pivot points entirely alone, the car will understeer a little more and typically won't like to do slaloms and sudden lane changes as well, which also means it'll be a little more tolerant of minor driver clumsiness/carelessness.
If you're a hardcore straight-line acceleration guy who never, ever takes corners very hard, you could probably live very easily with 50% more LCA relocation than lowering.
If you need or want something that's less sensitive/less demanding of you to stay on top of during episodes of hard cornering, you'd probably be better off if you could get less LCA relocating than drop (guessing maybe half an inch less relo than lowering), and you wouldn't be giving up all that much launch bite. Whether you can actually get LCA relo holes that are no more than 1" lower is an entirely separate matter.
Norm
Last edited by Norm Peterson; 06-27-2011 at 02:01 PM.
06-27-2011, 03:31 PM
#18
I think I'm understanding what you are say. Let me try to get this straight.
If I lower my car, say, 1.5 inches I would need to relocate the arms to about 1" lower than stock position so that the axles still point down but still maintain that same good axle steering? Or is that wrong? I feel like what I'm saying is wrong.
If I lower my car, say, 1.5 inches I would need to relocate the arms to about 1" lower than stock position so that the axles still point down but still maintain that same good axle steering? Or is that wrong? I feel like what I'm saying is wrong.
06-27-2011, 05:53 PM
#19
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: state of confusion
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It's the LCAs (not the axles) that point either up or down.
The LCAs will still be running slightly 'downhill' going from the axle pivots to the chassis pivots, actually a little more 'downhill' than stock. But not by much, and I think you'd find it a little easier to drive in the wet that way if you can find relo brackets drilled there, rather than at 1.5".
When the LCAs are anywhere from nearly level to going 'uphill' is when you pick up the oversteer tendency (aka "loose" or "loose steer" if you follow NASCAR or circle track racing at all).
Incidentally, those numbers are based on measurements that I made off my own car, which does not have the Shaker 1000 or other weighty gear in the trunk. So while they aren't based on actual Ford data, they should be close enough for most internet discussion and DIY modification purposes.
Norm
The LCAs will still be running slightly 'downhill' going from the axle pivots to the chassis pivots, actually a little more 'downhill' than stock. But not by much, and I think you'd find it a little easier to drive in the wet that way if you can find relo brackets drilled there, rather than at 1.5".
When the LCAs are anywhere from nearly level to going 'uphill' is when you pick up the oversteer tendency (aka "loose" or "loose steer" if you follow NASCAR or circle track racing at all).
Incidentally, those numbers are based on measurements that I made off my own car, which does not have the Shaker 1000 or other weighty gear in the trunk. So while they aren't based on actual Ford data, they should be close enough for most internet discussion and DIY modification purposes.
Norm
Last edited by Norm Peterson; 06-27-2011 at 06:01 PM.