are caster camber plates really needed?
11-29-2012, 09:53 PM
#11
Former Sponsor
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: NC
Posts: 424
i'll scratch the eilbach camber bolts off the list.would rather not have any issues due to them and just spend more money on the steeda plates and do it right. I am much more of a do it once and do it right kind of person. lol
if I ever look to get more performance from the car i can always swap stuff later but for now she is just gonna be a fast street car,and my DD when I dont need the company car.
you mention that the toe setting is what eats tires, but unless I am wrong, toe is adjusted with the tie rods correct?
if I ever look to get more performance from the car i can always swap stuff later but for now she is just gonna be a fast street car,and my DD when I dont need the company car.
you mention that the toe setting is what eats tires, but unless I am wrong, toe is adjusted with the tie rods correct?
The Steeda strut mounts are nice but if you're going to spend 350 for CC plates you should get some that have more adjustment than +1/-1. Camber bolts will do you just fine, there isn't too many people complaining about bolts breaking on them.
11-30-2012, 12:01 AM
#12
I was gonna go with these. reviews of them look pretty good,and they are not badly priced, cheaper than the steeda plates.
http://www.americanmuscle.com/2005-c...er-plates.html
like I said, I dont have any intentions of racing this car in the near or remote future. caster and camber plates would be overkill/unnecessary
I am only looking to make the investment in the J&M plates because I do plan on upgrading the wheels and tires from the stock 17 inch rims to some 19 inch SVE Drift wheels eventually. I imagine that with wider and taller tires the camber/alignment would need an adjustment.
http://www.americanmuscle.com/2005-c...er-plates.html
like I said, I dont have any intentions of racing this car in the near or remote future. caster and camber plates would be overkill/unnecessary
I am only looking to make the investment in the J&M plates because I do plan on upgrading the wheels and tires from the stock 17 inch rims to some 19 inch SVE Drift wheels eventually. I imagine that with wider and taller tires the camber/alignment would need an adjustment.
11-30-2012, 06:00 AM
#15
My experience using gt500 mounts with my drop...worth a read and to date no excessive tire.
https://mustangforums.com/forum/s197...ut-mounts.html
https://mustangforums.com/forum/s197...ut-mounts.html
Last edited by mayo; 11-30-2012 at 08:09 AM.
11-30-2012, 07:20 AM
#16
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: state of confusion
Posts: 7,635
No flame intended, Jay . . .
There is nothing inherently wrong with accomplishing camber adjustment at the strut to knuckle joint, provided that the revised arrangement meets any and all other Ford OE requirements. That includes maintaining the installation torque for the OE fasteners, which is a general indication of bolt strength, joint "tightness", and resistance to fastener loosening, which are pretty important considerations here.
Even one failure from this cause would be too many, because it is so easily avoided.
Ford's torque spec might be a little conservative, or maybe not given that there was a running production change to stronger fine thread bolts and a higher torque spec. But even though I've been an engineer for 40-odd years (and got pretty good at verifying that deteriorated conditions still met the original service requirements) I would not presume that Ford's torque spec was twice as high as necessary or that I was free to throw half of it away.
You might want to read just the abstract to this paper, keeping in mind that insufficiently tight strut to knuckle bolts can, will, and apparently have contributed to knuckle failures, and will be subject to slipping.
It honestly scares me that these things are accepted by so many folks without question and used without a thought to limitations on car use.
Norm
Last edited by Norm Peterson; 11-30-2012 at 01:52 PM. Reason: rephrased, same words different order
11-30-2012, 12:33 PM
#17
Former Sponsor
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,936
Camber bolts aren't what I recommend. In fact if you don't want to fix the camber with adjustable mounts/camber plates, then I recommend you just deal with the camber you get with stock bolts.
Sorry, but I've had camber bolts slip, even Ford's own which are much larger than the aftermarket stuff (which I do in fact sell because some folks will not listen to me no matter what, so I can cater to their wants).
Also 1-2 degrees of adjustment is plenty to get the car back into spec and then some. But there is another reason to do better upper mounts (and not GT500, those aren't adjustable and really aren't better because they don't fix the actually weak part of the Ford design).... And that's to: Fix the weak Ford design. The fact that Ford tells you that you should replace the mounts any time you take the struts apart tells you how crappy they are. That's how often a stock one fails. So you are killing two birds with one stone. And believe me, I have this reputation for not recommending every part the internet says you have to have, but this one is a good one to upgrade.
I prefer Steeda or MM mounts/plates.
Sorry, but I've had camber bolts slip, even Ford's own which are much larger than the aftermarket stuff (which I do in fact sell because some folks will not listen to me no matter what, so I can cater to their wants).
Also 1-2 degrees of adjustment is plenty to get the car back into spec and then some. But there is another reason to do better upper mounts (and not GT500, those aren't adjustable and really aren't better because they don't fix the actually weak part of the Ford design).... And that's to: Fix the weak Ford design. The fact that Ford tells you that you should replace the mounts any time you take the struts apart tells you how crappy they are. That's how often a stock one fails. So you are killing two birds with one stone. And believe me, I have this reputation for not recommending every part the internet says you have to have, but this one is a good one to upgrade.
I prefer Steeda or MM mounts/plates.
12-01-2012, 09:13 AM
#19
Cut & Paste Expert
Join Date: May 2007
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 13,322
Buy a digital level.
Check your camber before the lowering job.
Check after the lowering job.
Drive 10,000 miles on a new set of tires.
Read the tires for wear patterns.
Then decide if you need these caster/camber plates...
And dont forget the bump steer thats associated
with lowering. You will need a kit for that as well.
You are throwing Ford alignment specs out the window
when you lower your S197. Keep that in mind.
Dropped spindles is another route you can take.
And dont forget the one time use hardware that needs
replacing. And might as well get the redesigned
strut to spindle bolts while you are at it...
Check your camber before the lowering job.
Check after the lowering job.
Drive 10,000 miles on a new set of tires.
Read the tires for wear patterns.
Then decide if you need these caster/camber plates...
And dont forget the bump steer thats associated
with lowering. You will need a kit for that as well.
You are throwing Ford alignment specs out the window
when you lower your S197. Keep that in mind.
Dropped spindles is another route you can take.
And dont forget the one time use hardware that needs
replacing. And might as well get the redesigned
strut to spindle bolts while you are at it...
12-01-2012, 12:27 PM
#20
Former Sponsor
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: NC
Posts: 424
±1° should be plenty for anybody's moderate lowering springs, including the K's.
No flame intended, Jay . . .
There is nothing inherently wrong with accomplishing camber adjustment at the strut to knuckle joint, provided that the revised arrangement meets any and all other Ford OE requirements. That includes maintaining the installation torque for the OE fasteners, which is a general indication of bolt strength, joint "tightness", and resistance to fastener loosening, which are pretty important considerations here.
Even one failure from this cause would be too many, because it is so easily avoided.
Ford's torque spec might be a little conservative, or maybe not given that there was a running production change to stronger fine thread bolts and a higher torque spec. But even though I've been an engineer for 40-odd years (and got pretty good at verifying that deteriorated conditions still met the original service requirements) I would not presume that Ford's torque spec was twice as high as necessary or that I was free to throw half of it away.
You might want to read just the abstract to this paper, keeping in mind that insufficiently tight strut to knuckle bolts can, will, and apparently have contributed to knuckle failures, and will be subject to slipping.
It honestly scares me that these things are accepted by so many folks without question and used without a thought to limitations on car use.
Norm
No flame intended, Jay . . .
There is nothing inherently wrong with accomplishing camber adjustment at the strut to knuckle joint, provided that the revised arrangement meets any and all other Ford OE requirements. That includes maintaining the installation torque for the OE fasteners, which is a general indication of bolt strength, joint "tightness", and resistance to fastener loosening, which are pretty important considerations here.
Even one failure from this cause would be too many, because it is so easily avoided.
Ford's torque spec might be a little conservative, or maybe not given that there was a running production change to stronger fine thread bolts and a higher torque spec. But even though I've been an engineer for 40-odd years (and got pretty good at verifying that deteriorated conditions still met the original service requirements) I would not presume that Ford's torque spec was twice as high as necessary or that I was free to throw half of it away.
You might want to read just the abstract to this paper, keeping in mind that insufficiently tight strut to knuckle bolts can, will, and apparently have contributed to knuckle failures, and will be subject to slipping.
It honestly scares me that these things are accepted by so many folks without question and used without a thought to limitations on car use.
Norm
With what I've seen on just normal DD cars. Personally I recommend vorshlag or ground control CC plates.