flash_xx

Considering they are not very safe, I'm surprised Ford is selling camber caster bolts for the S197. Or are we overly cautious and they are not so unsafe? These are the ones I mean:

http://www.brenspeed.com/m-3b236-a.html

Norm Peterson

Bolts that can meet the same installation torque spec as the 'regular' bolts would be equally strong and capable of generating OE levels of bolt clamping load. I can't find the spec for these bolts, but the official Ford procedure for camber correction does use "camber bolts". Full strength camber bolts, and you have to do a little grinding to open up some holes in the strut 'ears' to get the available adjustment.


Norm

flash_xx

I figured they'd be ok. I don't think Ford would risk putting their name on them otherwise.

79FStreet

Norm, Your comment that Ford's procedure for camber correction includes camber bolts is encouraging. I'm Autocrossing a 2015 Mustang GT in F Street. The 2018 SCCA Solo Rules, Section 13.8 E. Street Category /Suspension, says, "If offered by the manufacturer for a particular model and year, the use of shims, special bolts (I'm reading: camber bolts), ….are allowed and the resulting alignment settings are permitted even if outside the normal specification or range of specifications recommended by the manufacturer."
I've been searching for a Ford Service Bulletin or other manufacturer's document to tie back to the "recommended by manufacturer" rule. Can you tell me where I might look?

Norm Peterson

It should be contained in the Factory Shop Manual in a section called something like "General Procedures/Camber Adjustment - Front". I think DickR over on M u s t a n g 6G dot com knows the little nitty-gritty details for the 2018 much better than I (2018's procedure is slightly different from 2008's).

Unless the SCCA rulebook has been relaxed a bit concerning the source of camber bolts, aftermarket bolts are not considered legal in the Street category.


Norm

Derf00

Why not just use Caster/camber plates? They cost more but if you're going between street and track a bit, the plates will far outlast the bolts and they are easier to adjust. Consider that the strut bolts used to attach the bottom of the strut to spindle (where camber bolts would go) require 160+ ft.lbs to tighten each time and Ford calls them a one-time use component. I don't know if the same one-time use rule also applies to the camber bolts but I would expect them to or at the very most, you'll get a few loosen/tighten cycles out of them before needing to replace them.

Norm Peterson

Because camber plates or caster-camber plates are not legal in SCCA's Street Category. Picky, but that's life in the lowest preparation level of SCCA autocrossing.


Norm

Derf00

Really? Wow, I would've never thought the SCCA would be picky in the wrong way for something that could be a safety issue. Most people aren't going to pay attention to or think about clamping force and bolt strength when using suicide bolts for camber adjustment. I guess as long as you and you get the one or two sets out that claim to have it... C'est la vie

Norm Peterson

SCCA's Street Category is essentially for factory-stock cars. Only a few modifications are permitted (Ford's own camber bolts are permitted as part of an approved procedure, while aftermarket camber bolts are not).

The 2017 rules are the latest I have, but this paragraph in the introduction to the 'Street' section has stood with little more than the identification of new alternate categories since before 2003).


Norm

79FStreet

I've competed in FS, ESP, and STU with different "pony cars" through the years. The current F-Street PAX is very favorable for this car even with the performance pack and simple mods that are allowed such as front Eibach stabilizer bar, Koni sport Shocks, Magna Flow cat-backs, etc. As you noted, the castor-camber plates would bounce me into a "higher" category and significantly higher PAX. I may do that again at some point, but I wouldn't "limp in" to a more modified category with just camber plates.
I've worked as a process engineer for years including management of torque systems. I understand the concern about a smaller diameter bolt. If made of the correct material, processed, and heat-treated properly the yield strength and tensile strength of a smaller diameter bolt can be just as much as a fatter bolt. The Ford service pack includes an eccentric bolt and requires opening the hole in the strut to fit the eccentric lobe. That's a lot different than shrinking an eccentric bolt down to fit the hole without modification.
The Ford Performance Parts site shows a YYYY-2014 Camber Bolt Service Pack. If they sell a kit for the 2015 Mustang it's not obvious. The Official Ford Parts Site doesn't seem to show one either. I agree with the interpretation that only Ford's bolts would be approved.
I'll keep looking. thanks for the input.