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J&M Panhard Bar Installed

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Old 10-17-2018, 04:35 PM
  #11  
08'MustangDude
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Yeah, the driver side was just harder to get into the bracket. I lined up both bars to be
sure they were the same length, and then put the OE on top of the J&M to make sure the
bolt holes lined up, they did. If the J&M was any longer or shorter, the bushing bolt holes
would not have lined up. So, say you lined up the left side hole, and saw the right side was
not a straight through, then the bar is not the same length. You should be able to put the bolts
through both bushing holes with one on top of the other, for same length.

I put lube on the bushing surfaces to get them into the brackets, and as I said, the driver
side was not easy, as you also know. I also had some mallet strikes to get the driver
side in. The passenger side was not an issue at all.

I don't see either tire sticking out farther than the other one on mine. I may measure later,
to see. Due to thicker bushings, it may settle later, and even out. IF you greased them
before installing, that may offset the holes. I had to do the driver side though. I don't know
how they expect you to get to the driver side zerk, it's under the bracket... I have to find
another hose and end fitting for my grease gun, because I can't fit the nozzle end under
the zerk, in the bracket. I do not want to drill a hole in the bracket, so I can get the
fitting through to grease that side...

One Zerk is supposed to be offset, on a diagonal so you can get to it on the driver
side. Both mine are straight down.

Adjustable ones:
Adjusting the right side track bar end upward moves the rear axle to the right, and therefore both rear tires.
Adjusting it downward moves the rear axle to the left, and therefore both rear tires.
Raising the track bar makes the car looser (oversteer).
Lowering the track bar makes the car tighter (understeer).

Only one side of the panhard rod would be adjustable, that end would go to the passenger
side:

Adjustable install allow for a 1/4" difference, if there is more you use a blumb-bob to measure.
You hold the string against the fender allowing the bob to hang near the center of the tire.
Measure the distance between the string and the tire. If the difference between the two sides
is greater than 1/4", adjust the bar to compensate.

I know, yours is not adjustable, just using the 1/4" error example...

Last edited by 08'MustangDude; 10-17-2018 at 04:39 PM.
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Old 10-18-2018, 09:39 AM
  #12  
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Thank you, great info. I did compared both before install and they were exactly same length. That tells me that I had the 1/4 off-set all along and never noticed. Car drives great still.
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Old 10-18-2018, 02:37 PM
  #13  
08'MustangDude
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They can be the same length, but that does not mean the bushing bolt holes evenly lined up.
I checked to be sure I could put both bolts, through both rod's bushing bolt holes while they were off the car.

Can also be a slightly bent bracket...

May be the Axle has some play in it on that side...

AS long as is drives good.
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Old 10-19-2018, 07:47 AM
  #14  
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I will look this one over again over the weekend. Thanks for all the info.
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Old 10-22-2018, 06:34 AM
  #15  
08'MustangDude
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Also, check out the Panhard brace. When they get weak, they flex, and causes the passenger
side panhard rod bracket to flex.

Factory:




Aftermarket -vs- Factory:



Installed:

You see how it ties the right side Panhard rod bracket to the car chassis. These aftermarket ones do not
flex. The factory one, you can pull on it, and it will flex... If it happens to be bent, it can push the chassis
to one side. I would buy one, but it's going on COLD weather, so I will probably wait till next spring, unless
one pops up dirt cheap.
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Old 10-22-2018, 08:18 AM
  #16  
ZEN357
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Nice job!!! That should make things a little stiffer for you and handle better.
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Old 10-22-2018, 09:31 AM
  #17  
Norm Peterson
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Sure, the PHB brace looks and maybe even feels flimsy if you were to grab it in the middle and pull down on it. But that's not a direction it can ever be naturally loaded in, so it's misleading to use the brace's flexibility in that direction to evaluate it for the loads that it does see. I suppose it could buckle if the compressive loads got high enough, but It's safe to assume that Ford did consider this and include a reasonable margin against this happening.

If it's already damaged or rusted, sure, replace it (and if it's damaged, you'd better look closely at the rest of the structure back there for additional damage). If you're moving up to the stickiest available race tires and taking them to and beyond their limits of cornering grip, maybe for that as well. But for normal street driving at least up through autocross and HPDE it's not necessary at all. The OE brace on my car has repeatedly seen over 1.3g cornering in road course driving, and since it hasn't shown any signs of bending out of shape it's not a candidate for replacement any time soon.


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Last edited by Norm Peterson; 10-22-2018 at 09:35 AM.
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Old 10-22-2018, 04:23 PM
  #18  
08'MustangDude
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Originally Posted by ZEN357 View Post
Nice job!!! That should make things a little stiffer for you and handle better.
Originally Posted by Me
You see how it ties the right side Panhard rod bracket to the car chassis. These aftermarket ones do not
flex. The factory one, you can pull on it, and it will flex... If it happens to be bent, it can push the chassis
to one side. I would buy one, but it's going on COLD weather, so I will probably wait till next spring, unless
one pops up dirt cheap.
Sorry man, not a nice job, I have not done mine yet, as indicated.

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson View Post
Sure, the PHB brace looks and maybe even feels flimsy if you were to grab it in the middle and pull down on it. But that's not a direction it can ever be naturally loaded in, so it's misleading to use the brace's flexibility in that direction to evaluate it for the loads that it does see. I suppose it could buckle if the compressive loads got high enough, but It's safe to assume that Ford did consider this and include a reasonable margin against this happening.

If it's already damaged or rusted, sure, replace it (and if it's damaged, you'd better look closely at the rest of the structure back there for additional damage). If you're moving up to the stickiest available race tires and taking them to and beyond their limits of cornering grip, maybe for that as well. But for normal street driving at least up through autocross and HPDE it's not necessary at all. The OE brace on my car has repeatedly seen over 1.3g cornering in road course driving, and since it hasn't shown any signs of bending out of shape it's not a candidate for replacement any time soon.


Norm
Chassis twist will have it flex in the middle. Side to side push and pull, no.
It just reinforces the passenger side bracket. Will help prevent any additional
deflection under load. They can be had for $70.00 new, not a huge expense,
but nothing you really "need" for a daily driver. but if you want another "Check
this out" part, then this is one to install.
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Old 10-23-2018, 08:33 AM
  #19  
Norm Peterson
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Originally Posted by 08'MustangDude View Post
Chassis twist will have it flex in the middle. Side to side push and pull, no.
General chassis twist shouldn't change the shape looking at any cross-section of the car, which in this case includes the PHB, the PHB brace, and the chassis structure running laterally between the base of the bracket and where the brace attaches over on the driver side.

It's the lateral forces applied to the PHB's chassis-side bracket (pass side) that are trying to distort the above-described plane, and this is a local 2-D condition that's related to chassis twist (which is a 3-D matter) without being a direct part of it. These local distortions can be minimized or eliminated without reducing the overall chassis twist at all.

The brace is there to triangulate the bracket against bending over, which if allowed to happen would then carry over into twisting the passenger side chassis 'rail' and bending the lateral structure between where the passenger side PHB bracket attaches and where the brace attaches over on the driver side. The brace would have to share the same bolt that the PHB does for the brace to carry all of the lateral load, but since the PHB bolt and the brace bolt are close the brace does end up doing a good job of minimizing these distortions.


It just reinforces the passenger side bracket. Will help prevent any additional
deflection under load.
Both the OE and aftermarket braces do the same job. I'm not trying to say an aftermarket brace does not, just that in street driving there's no need for the level of 'overkill' that the more rigid aftermarket pieces provide.

What I'm really opposed to here is the misleading advertising that uses the flexible direction of the OE brace to suggest that it is in some way inadequate, when the brace simply cannot be loaded in that direction. Structurally it's like saying that nobody's PHB design is any good because you can't jack up the rear of the car by placing the jack pad under the PHB. I'm not going to try to determine where to place the blame for this kind of advertising (advertising agency guys who write the ads? company people who approve them? etc.).

Nor do I have anything against J&M or any of the others who sell these braces (only this sort of advertising). I'm just noting as a (now retired) structural engineer that even though it's misleading in the 'conservative' direction (IOW "more safe"), it's still misleading in a mildly scare-tactics way for the sole purpose of boosting sales.


Norm

Last edited by Norm Peterson; 10-23-2018 at 08:44 AM.
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Old 10-23-2018, 03:33 PM
  #20  
08'MustangDude
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I also wondered how it works so well with how it bolts in on the passenger side, like a bushing
bolt would. Still leaves a pivot point as I see it... The bracket could still flex below the bolt,
not that it would under driving conditions, just saying.
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