Open letter to SOEC and SCOA....
10-20-2009, 02:21 PM
#21
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Rimrock, AZ
Posts: 505
Many Saleen owners also enjoy getting out and showing their cars at local and national car shows, or meeting up with others for a cruise or activity, and when you decide to join a "club" there are membership fees and certain benefits that come with club membership.
There are allot of Saleen owners who never get online, like Jason said, that are part of a real club that has meetings outside of the internet. Some of them don't use a computer to communicate with at all.
10-20-2009, 03:13 PM
#22
10-20-2009, 04:23 PM
#23
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Maryland
Posts: 75
FYI, joining a Saleen talk forum online does not mean you joined a "club". It is only a place to chat.
Many Saleen owners also enjoy getting out and showing their cars at local and national car shows, or meeting up with others for a cruise or activity, and when you decide to join a "club" there are membership fees and certain benefits that come with club membership.
Many Saleen owners also enjoy getting out and showing their cars at local and national car shows, or meeting up with others for a cruise or activity, and when you decide to join a "club" there are membership fees and certain benefits that come with club membership.
10-20-2009, 04:39 PM
#24
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location:
Posts: 184
Dear MustangForums Members,
First, let me start by saying thank you for allowing me to be part of your group here for a number of years to help spread the word about Saleens, and the Saleen Club of America.
I feel that some background information needs to be shared, as it seems not a month goes by where I do not get at least a couple calls from Saleen owners asking me why does the SOEC continue to do what they do, and nobody says anything about it.
About me. I am a multiple Saleen owner who has been a owner of one or more Saleens for almost 15 years. I own a 1985 Saleen, a 1989 Saleen and a 2000 Saleen. During those years of ownership I have met many fellow owners, and some of my best friends are fellow Saleen owners. Over the years I have had the pleasure of meeting hundreds of fellow owners.
Early on in my ownership experience I joined the SOEC, which was started by friends/people I know. That said, even in the'90s things were not perfect with them. As a new and excited owner I was willing to "look the other way" when I was shortchanged for what I paid for in my membership. I knew that this was the only "club", and while it was not as good as other car clubs I had belonged to, it was the only one. I offered to try and help, and so did others that I knew. It was with the rejection of help we got, combined with more time passing, and becomming better educated, did I learn about the "inner circle" workings of the SOEC.
In 2002 there was a recall effort to remove the SOEC president from the position by the SOEC Board of Directors due to incompetence. This person rejected the wishes of the BOD, as essentially put herself into the position "for life" based on personal freindships with the Saleens. It is my opinion, and others, that at that moment the SOEC was no longer a car club that supported the marque and followed their by-laws, but a Steve Saleen fan club.
It was due to this event that I began working on the formation of a new car club to support the marque known as "Saleen". Work continued into 2003, and with the help of others we launched the Saleen Club of America, a club dedicated to the marque known as Saleen.
The Saleen Club of America has started out as a small number of paid members, but has grown to several hundred paid members all over the USA and also in several other countries. We focus on putting out our Club magazine, PoweRRR as well as fostering events all across the USA. A couple examples of this are the Club's National Show which is usually the largest gathering of Saleens in any given year, with 84 Saleens at one of them. Another example is the work that a couple of our Charter Members have done with the Huntington Beach Concors d'Elegance. There was a time when there was no Saleen class at any nationally recognized Concors, but due to the work of a couple SCOA members with support from the SCOA, there is now a Saleen class at a national level Concors. This list could go on and on.
As you can tell, I am passionate about cars, including Saleens. I also care about my fellow owners, and have for years. I am part of the group that was involved with Saleenchat.com from day #1, an independent site that has promoted Saleens from the mid-90's. Through this online group we have helped a number of owners through various times and troubles. At Saleenchat we were always focused on the owners first, and that is how I still feel. The owners come first in my mind.
One thing that I can not stand is people or groups taking advantage of my friends, or fellow owners. At this time, I feel this is the main operation of SOEC. They have not delivered a full years worth of what they have promised those who have paid for memberships in a long time. They have been collecting money in the name of dues for years, and failing to deliver. I do not have a problem pointing this fact out. I do not have a problem helping keep a fellow Saleen owner from maining a check to somebody with the hope of getting something in return, when I know they will get shortchanged. The SOEC has collected tens of thousands of dollars from Saleen owners and shortchanged them. This is criminal. This is why they are being investigated by the Virginia DA office. When somebody is trying to get people to part with thier money by sending them to join a group like that, I do not have a problem pointing out what they are trying to do, steal from them. All I can think of is that people are afraid that if they say something bad about Steve, or the SOEC, they will no longer have access to Steve. I am not joining a Steve Saleen fan club ever in my lifetime. I do repect the efforts he put in, and the dream of making the cars come true, but I do not worship him like some sort of super-human. If you were to ask the court of New Jersey what they think of Steve based on a lawsuit he was involved with there, they would say that Steve Saleen is “Unjust, unfair and downright dishonest."
I read somewhere that Jim, one of the SOEC "internet guys" posted about leaving the show at the Queen Mary. This was a Saleen Show, and Jim was asked to leave by the President of SPV, as Jim was passing out SMS promotional items, and looking to "data mine" Saleen owners so that he could pass Saleen owners personal information on to Steve so that SMS could target them to buy SMS products. This is something that is clearly "Steve orriented" and not in the best interest of the owners, especially when he was trying to dupe them into giving up the information.
The lawsuits filed by Steve are another interesting story. Steve supporters accept on blind faith the word being spread by the SOEC, as it, like much that comes from them, is full of mis-information. They have chosen the side of Steve against SPV in the lawsuits. Steve has filed two, one of which is against SPV. If you knew what I did about these you would find them laughable!
In closing I would say that I agree that car clubs are not for everyone, and internet sites alone do not make a national car club.
I wish all my fellow Saleen owners the best.
Thank you and happy Saleening!
First, let me start by saying thank you for allowing me to be part of your group here for a number of years to help spread the word about Saleens, and the Saleen Club of America.
I feel that some background information needs to be shared, as it seems not a month goes by where I do not get at least a couple calls from Saleen owners asking me why does the SOEC continue to do what they do, and nobody says anything about it.
About me. I am a multiple Saleen owner who has been a owner of one or more Saleens for almost 15 years. I own a 1985 Saleen, a 1989 Saleen and a 2000 Saleen. During those years of ownership I have met many fellow owners, and some of my best friends are fellow Saleen owners. Over the years I have had the pleasure of meeting hundreds of fellow owners.
Early on in my ownership experience I joined the SOEC, which was started by friends/people I know. That said, even in the'90s things were not perfect with them. As a new and excited owner I was willing to "look the other way" when I was shortchanged for what I paid for in my membership. I knew that this was the only "club", and while it was not as good as other car clubs I had belonged to, it was the only one. I offered to try and help, and so did others that I knew. It was with the rejection of help we got, combined with more time passing, and becomming better educated, did I learn about the "inner circle" workings of the SOEC.
In 2002 there was a recall effort to remove the SOEC president from the position by the SOEC Board of Directors due to incompetence. This person rejected the wishes of the BOD, as essentially put herself into the position "for life" based on personal freindships with the Saleens. It is my opinion, and others, that at that moment the SOEC was no longer a car club that supported the marque and followed their by-laws, but a Steve Saleen fan club.
It was due to this event that I began working on the formation of a new car club to support the marque known as "Saleen". Work continued into 2003, and with the help of others we launched the Saleen Club of America, a club dedicated to the marque known as Saleen.
The Saleen Club of America has started out as a small number of paid members, but has grown to several hundred paid members all over the USA and also in several other countries. We focus on putting out our Club magazine, PoweRRR as well as fostering events all across the USA. A couple examples of this are the Club's National Show which is usually the largest gathering of Saleens in any given year, with 84 Saleens at one of them. Another example is the work that a couple of our Charter Members have done with the Huntington Beach Concors d'Elegance. There was a time when there was no Saleen class at any nationally recognized Concors, but due to the work of a couple SCOA members with support from the SCOA, there is now a Saleen class at a national level Concors. This list could go on and on.
As you can tell, I am passionate about cars, including Saleens. I also care about my fellow owners, and have for years. I am part of the group that was involved with Saleenchat.com from day #1, an independent site that has promoted Saleens from the mid-90's. Through this online group we have helped a number of owners through various times and troubles. At Saleenchat we were always focused on the owners first, and that is how I still feel. The owners come first in my mind.
One thing that I can not stand is people or groups taking advantage of my friends, or fellow owners. At this time, I feel this is the main operation of SOEC. They have not delivered a full years worth of what they have promised those who have paid for memberships in a long time. They have been collecting money in the name of dues for years, and failing to deliver. I do not have a problem pointing this fact out. I do not have a problem helping keep a fellow Saleen owner from maining a check to somebody with the hope of getting something in return, when I know they will get shortchanged. The SOEC has collected tens of thousands of dollars from Saleen owners and shortchanged them. This is criminal. This is why they are being investigated by the Virginia DA office. When somebody is trying to get people to part with thier money by sending them to join a group like that, I do not have a problem pointing out what they are trying to do, steal from them. All I can think of is that people are afraid that if they say something bad about Steve, or the SOEC, they will no longer have access to Steve. I am not joining a Steve Saleen fan club ever in my lifetime. I do repect the efforts he put in, and the dream of making the cars come true, but I do not worship him like some sort of super-human. If you were to ask the court of New Jersey what they think of Steve based on a lawsuit he was involved with there, they would say that Steve Saleen is “Unjust, unfair and downright dishonest."
I read somewhere that Jim, one of the SOEC "internet guys" posted about leaving the show at the Queen Mary. This was a Saleen Show, and Jim was asked to leave by the President of SPV, as Jim was passing out SMS promotional items, and looking to "data mine" Saleen owners so that he could pass Saleen owners personal information on to Steve so that SMS could target them to buy SMS products. This is something that is clearly "Steve orriented" and not in the best interest of the owners, especially when he was trying to dupe them into giving up the information.
The lawsuits filed by Steve are another interesting story. Steve supporters accept on blind faith the word being spread by the SOEC, as it, like much that comes from them, is full of mis-information. They have chosen the side of Steve against SPV in the lawsuits. Steve has filed two, one of which is against SPV. If you knew what I did about these you would find them laughable!
In closing I would say that I agree that car clubs are not for everyone, and internet sites alone do not make a national car club.
I wish all my fellow Saleen owners the best.
Thank you and happy Saleening!
Last edited by Saleen Mike; 10-20-2009 at 05:00 PM. Reason: Fixed a couple spelling errors & I'm sure there are more.
10-20-2009, 05:23 PM
#26
I've always heard the story from the SCOA side, and never once heard SOEC defend themselves. I'd be interested to hear their side, because obviously if someone said something like that about me I'd defend myself if it wasn't true.
That aside, I know Jim introduced himself the other night at the Fabulous Fords board meeting as the Acting Director of SOEC and President of the SMS Superclub. Take that for what it's worth when you question the direction of each club.
That aside, I know Jim introduced himself the other night at the Fabulous Fords board meeting as the Acting Director of SOEC and President of the SMS Superclub. Take that for what it's worth when you question the direction of each club.
10-21-2009, 09:00 AM
#28
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 283
Very good discussion -
Just to clear a few things and maybe move on - our club isn't in competition with any other club and I can't speak for what any other club does or thinks - only what we are trying to do with ours.
There are no doubt problems with members in each club for whatever reasons they may have and it shouldn't reflect on the club and I personally hope anyone who is interested, would find out about the clubs on their respective forums, thru their individual magazines and participate in the activities they provide around the country.
That's who the members really are -
Clubs aren't for everyone that's for sure, but there are some great ones out there and our is one of those. We have 400 Saleen owners and enthusiast in our club with 54 officers in 9 Regions - not big numbers for sure, but very proud to have come this far in 7 years without corporate support until this year. All Member and Sponsor supported.
Thanks for the opportunity to participate in this discussion and hope to see some of you at our events - or contact me via email for questions or information - I'll be happy to try an answer them and clear up any mis-feelings towards our club.
Just to clear a few things and maybe move on - our club isn't in competition with any other club and I can't speak for what any other club does or thinks - only what we are trying to do with ours.
There are no doubt problems with members in each club for whatever reasons they may have and it shouldn't reflect on the club and I personally hope anyone who is interested, would find out about the clubs on their respective forums, thru their individual magazines and participate in the activities they provide around the country.
That's who the members really are -
Clubs aren't for everyone that's for sure, but there are some great ones out there and our is one of those. We have 400 Saleen owners and enthusiast in our club with 54 officers in 9 Regions - not big numbers for sure, but very proud to have come this far in 7 years without corporate support until this year. All Member and Sponsor supported.
Thanks for the opportunity to participate in this discussion and hope to see some of you at our events - or contact me via email for questions or information - I'll be happy to try an answer them and clear up any mis-feelings towards our club.
10-21-2009, 01:55 PM
#30
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: CA
Posts: 124
As the OP said:
"I don't want this to turn into an argument of who is worse.....just please consider what sort of image you're conveying about your clubs to outsiders. It's disheartening to read."
That, I agree with 100%.
Yes, there are some mighty personalities and egos involved in this whole thing. And really, that seems par for the course - all the mess between Carol Shelby and SAAC, SAI's takeover and then aggressive censorship of teamshelby.com, looks like its all just the norm for the car industry...
Chris.