4.0l timing question
05-23-2018, 02:27 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2018
Location: New york
Posts: 4
4.0l timing question
Hello everyone new to the forum I have a 2005 4.0l mustang and just got a sct x4 programmer but I can only retard timing not advance.. any idea why or how I can advance my timing? Thankyou for any help
05-23-2018, 04:00 PM
#2
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,327
Advance spark time is done under acceleration, so you don't want to mess with that
much, if at all, especially if you are not boosted.
Retarding the timing reduces the dynamic compression ratio; reduces the pressure on
the gasoline air mixture, so it reduces/eliminates preignition.
Of course, you don't want spark too much before the piston reaches TDC.
As revs increase, spark timing advances to keep the torque steady. You don't
have CAM timing with the 4.0, so all you have is spark.
I have the predator tuner, and I can advance timing, so don't know why yours doesn't
have the option. Oh, it may be the tune you're using. If you're on an 87 tune, then
probably no options for advance spark timing. If you are on a 93 octane performance
tune, then the option may be available. I think I recall that on mine; when I was on
the 87, there was no access to timing parameters. When I went to the 93 Perfomance
tune, the options were then available.
There is NO reason to advance timing with 87 octane fuel, and you don't want to
due to detonation/preignition.
much, if at all, especially if you are not boosted.
Retarding the timing reduces the dynamic compression ratio; reduces the pressure on
the gasoline air mixture, so it reduces/eliminates preignition.
Of course, you don't want spark too much before the piston reaches TDC.
As revs increase, spark timing advances to keep the torque steady. You don't
have CAM timing with the 4.0, so all you have is spark.
I have the predator tuner, and I can advance timing, so don't know why yours doesn't
have the option. Oh, it may be the tune you're using. If you're on an 87 tune, then
probably no options for advance spark timing. If you are on a 93 octane performance
tune, then the option may be available. I think I recall that on mine; when I was on
the 87, there was no access to timing parameters. When I went to the 93 Perfomance
tune, the options were then available.
There is NO reason to advance timing with 87 octane fuel, and you don't want to
due to detonation/preignition.
05-23-2018, 04:47 PM
#3
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2018
Location: New york
Posts: 4
I have it on 93 and no option I just wanna increase it a tiny bit. I have heard people increasing spark all the way and working there way back to not have pinging or knocking but I can only go negative spark timing
05-24-2018, 12:32 PM
#4
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 489
4.0l timing question
Dennis, 08 hit the nail on the head. One of the "built in features" of a custom tune is "timing advance" it is already programed into your SCT X4. If you mess with the timing, be prepared to sweep up the pieces when you launch your engine. I have been using custom tunes from BAMA for twenty years, and the one parameter you leave alone is timing. If a timing option is not there, there is a reason.
06-01-2018, 04:16 PM
#5
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2018
Location: New york
Posts: 4
Ok I guess I misunderstood when purchasing my sct x4. I thought one of the biggest reasons to buy one was to advance spark timing closer to tdc to get more horsepower. But not so much that you get knocking or pinging. For me I basically told the computer I have a cold air intake and use 93 even tho it was already set to 93. I'm just feeling like I wasted my money. Yeah I gained 5ish horsepower and a little mpg. Kinda bummed out. Thankyou for the insight guys
06-01-2018, 07:14 PM
#6
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 20
Trouble with my Bama Tunes
Hello everyone,
I was just browsing through this thread and couldn’t help but notice most everyone is running Bama tunes of their 4.0s. I too have a 4.0 V6 and have had the worst experience with Bama tunes.
The first set of tunes I installed to my car allowed the car to run properly but the wrench light remained on. I contacted Bama and they told me that the ECU was still learning the tune and that the wrench light should subside within 50-100 miles. I thought to myself, “you’re just worried about your car.” So I thought nothing of it. Well, nearly 3 weeks later and 400 miles turned over and the car still hadn’t gotten rid of the light. So I contacted Bama and they offered to rewrite the tunes for me. Another set of tunes, same problem, only 500 miles were out on them.
After the second set of tunes were faulty I contacted Bama yet again and asked to have them rewrite the tunes. This time the person who wrote the tunes asked me to use the tuner to extract a “ECU Strategy Code”. He found that the code the tuner extracted was UHK0 (the two previous sets of tunes used BSZ1, which is on a sticker on the ECU under the hood). Being that the codes did not match up I was weary about installing the latest set of tunes. I installed them and the car went crazy. Every gauge went nuts. Turning in every which way, the message center was throuwing all kinds of chimes and alerts at me. The engine turned over but never cranked. I engaged the starter for nearly 15 seconds and not even a single fire.
After this I was scared, and quite frankly scared to install anymore tunes from Bama, or anybody for that sake. I again contacted Bama and they said, “oh that’s definitely not the right strategy code (UHK0).” Then he sends me yet another batch of BSZ1 tunes that I’m going to have to drive 200-300 miles to only find that they don’t work.
If any of you guys can give me any insight. I’m actually pretty pissed that I have spent 400 dollars on a paper weight.
I was just browsing through this thread and couldn’t help but notice most everyone is running Bama tunes of their 4.0s. I too have a 4.0 V6 and have had the worst experience with Bama tunes.
The first set of tunes I installed to my car allowed the car to run properly but the wrench light remained on. I contacted Bama and they told me that the ECU was still learning the tune and that the wrench light should subside within 50-100 miles. I thought to myself, “you’re just worried about your car.” So I thought nothing of it. Well, nearly 3 weeks later and 400 miles turned over and the car still hadn’t gotten rid of the light. So I contacted Bama and they offered to rewrite the tunes for me. Another set of tunes, same problem, only 500 miles were out on them.
After the second set of tunes were faulty I contacted Bama yet again and asked to have them rewrite the tunes. This time the person who wrote the tunes asked me to use the tuner to extract a “ECU Strategy Code”. He found that the code the tuner extracted was UHK0 (the two previous sets of tunes used BSZ1, which is on a sticker on the ECU under the hood). Being that the codes did not match up I was weary about installing the latest set of tunes. I installed them and the car went crazy. Every gauge went nuts. Turning in every which way, the message center was throuwing all kinds of chimes and alerts at me. The engine turned over but never cranked. I engaged the starter for nearly 15 seconds and not even a single fire.
After this I was scared, and quite frankly scared to install anymore tunes from Bama, or anybody for that sake. I again contacted Bama and they said, “oh that’s definitely not the right strategy code (UHK0).” Then he sends me yet another batch of BSZ1 tunes that I’m going to have to drive 200-300 miles to only find that they don’t work.
If any of you guys can give me any insight. I’m actually pretty pissed that I have spent 400 dollars on a paper weight.
06-02-2018, 03:58 AM
#7
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,327
I got a Predator tuner, $135.00, used from someone in Canada, and it worked okay.
The problem is, these are NOT variable valve timing engines, not like the 3.7 which
puts out 305 horse power. This big 4.0 is capable of more than 210, but not with
what it comes with stock. I got more power and better MPG with the performance
tune, so I left it there. I have not updated the tuner, because I have to take the
car back to stock, and unmarry it first... Without knowing what the update is
for and if it updates the tunes, makes them batter, I am not going to bother doing
it.
Anyway, you're not gonna see high gains like you would with a VVT engine...
People have had problems with the Bama canned tunes, but they have some kind
of "tunes for life" where you can make your own, and data log to get the spark
timing just right before losing power advancing too far. People have said that it's
not they they're bad, they just aren't that good, there are better options available.
They claim:
Too bad you don't have a 05-06 GT, there's a dude selling a predator for $60.00, umarried, on Facebook marketplace.
It's been there for a LONG time, and was like $120 when it was first listed... IT says it's 05-06 GT specific...
The problem is, these are NOT variable valve timing engines, not like the 3.7 which
puts out 305 horse power. This big 4.0 is capable of more than 210, but not with
what it comes with stock. I got more power and better MPG with the performance
tune, so I left it there. I have not updated the tuner, because I have to take the
car back to stock, and unmarry it first... Without knowing what the update is
for and if it updates the tunes, makes them batter, I am not going to bother doing
it.
Anyway, you're not gonna see high gains like you would with a VVT engine...
People have had problems with the Bama canned tunes, but they have some kind
of "tunes for life" where you can make your own, and data log to get the spark
timing just right before losing power advancing too far. People have said that it's
not they they're bad, they just aren't that good, there are better options available.
They claim:
- 2005-2010 V6 Mustangs have seen dyno proven gains of 16 RWHP and 21 ft-lb's of Torque
Too bad you don't have a 05-06 GT, there's a dude selling a predator for $60.00, umarried, on Facebook marketplace.
It's been there for a LONG time, and was like $120 when it was first listed... IT says it's 05-06 GT specific...
06-02-2018, 04:11 AM
#8
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,327
Also, there's a difference between strategy code, and calibration. A four digit code
is the calibration code. The strategy codes are seven digits. The sticker on the
ECU with the 4-digit code is the calibration.
Example:
Strategy code: FBNF1G3
PCM calibration code: TJF1
The strategy code is the actual name of the binary file your PCM has in it that is running off of.
The first 5 digits of that code is the strategy family. So as long as the first 5 digits of the strategy
are the same, the code is usually interchangable. The full 7 digit code can also be called by the PCM
code (4 digit one), however when looking at the PCM, there is a label with the 4 digit code, but if the
car has been updated at the dealership, the strategy could be different.
Using a tune with the wrong strategy code will cause the errors, dash lights, and so on. You should be
able to read both codes with the tuner.
Just some info...
is the calibration code. The strategy codes are seven digits. The sticker on the
ECU with the 4-digit code is the calibration.
Example:
Strategy code: FBNF1G3
PCM calibration code: TJF1
The strategy code is the actual name of the binary file your PCM has in it that is running off of.
The first 5 digits of that code is the strategy family. So as long as the first 5 digits of the strategy
are the same, the code is usually interchangable. The full 7 digit code can also be called by the PCM
code (4 digit one), however when looking at the PCM, there is a label with the 4 digit code, but if the
car has been updated at the dealership, the strategy could be different.
Using a tune with the wrong strategy code will cause the errors, dash lights, and so on. You should be
able to read both codes with the tuner.
The strategy id and pcm code are linked to each other. If you take your car to the dealer and you put the stock intake and stock tune back in your car, make sure you use the xcal 2 to read the strategy id and write it down. Once you have returned from the dealer and you aren't sure if they reflashed your pcm with a new calibration code, before installing the cai and tune use the xcal2 to read the strategy id again and compare it to what you wrote down before taking it in to the dealer. If they are the same before and after you are good to go and install the cai/tune. If they are different don't load the tune because this will corrupt or erase the pcm in the car. Call your tuner and give him the new strategy id and he or she will know the new computer code for the new strategy id and they should be able to email you a new tune. Remember, the four digit sticker on the pcm under the hood is no longer correct. It's the pcm code for the old strategy id and not the new one. I would pull that sticker off and make sure your tuner tells you what the new corresponding pcm code to the new strategy id and put a new sticker on the pcm under the hood. This way if you sell your car the new owner will know the new pcm code because if they don't already have an xcal2 they wouldn't be able to pull the strategy id.
06-02-2018, 05:20 AM
#9
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 20
Thanks 08Mustang,
I understand how all the variable valve timing works and that within VVT, more gains are possible. When I first bought the tuner all I wanted was a little more pep in its step and a few MPGs. Right now, cruising at 60-65mph I can get upwards of 34mpg. I was hoping with a tune it would push that over 36mpg.
As as far as the strategy/ calibration code goes, I now this. The tuner reads: “FBCD155” as the “ECU Strategy” and BSZ1 is on the sticker on the ECU. I have notified Bama of this and they claim that for ECU Strategy FBCD155 the Calbration code must be UHK0. When I installed UHK0 tunes, that is when I had all of my issues.
As as far as I’m concerned, I feel like I bought a 400 dollar paper weight. I almost went with Stedda Autosports when buying my tunes but though American Muscle would be the way to go because of a larger customer base.
I understand how all the variable valve timing works and that within VVT, more gains are possible. When I first bought the tuner all I wanted was a little more pep in its step and a few MPGs. Right now, cruising at 60-65mph I can get upwards of 34mpg. I was hoping with a tune it would push that over 36mpg.
As as far as the strategy/ calibration code goes, I now this. The tuner reads: “FBCD155” as the “ECU Strategy” and BSZ1 is on the sticker on the ECU. I have notified Bama of this and they claim that for ECU Strategy FBCD155 the Calbration code must be UHK0. When I installed UHK0 tunes, that is when I had all of my issues.
As as far as I’m concerned, I feel like I bought a 400 dollar paper weight. I almost went with Stedda Autosports when buying my tunes but though American Muscle would be the way to go because of a larger customer base.
06-02-2018, 12:32 PM
#10
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,327
Yeah, but what does the TUNER say the Calibration code is, not the sticker.
As mentioned, if the ECU was updated, it changes, even if you never had tuned
it prior to getting the tuner.
Do ANY of the canned tunes work? Like, an 87 octane, or 91 octane?
Not the 93 race tune, but at least try the 87 and 91, to make sure they
work. IF they don't then you have some weird ECU issue...
It should have at least 3 built in ones, and can hold 10 custom tunes.
Using one of the canned tunes, and having it WORK, will eliminate the
possibility your ECU just won't work with it. This will directly narrow it
down to either, someone's error, coding the Bama tune, or they just can't for
your engine configuration. People mostly use Bama tunes for more than
just a CAI bolt on. Larger MAF, Throttle body, bigger injectors. IF your
motor is stock with just a CAI, Bama tunes ares probably not for you, try
one of the canned tunes to verify that A tune works...
Even something as simple as, they're using V8 values for your V6... You never
know... We once sent an ECU for a V8 Dakota out to be programmed, with
drive by wire. When the ECU came back, it hardly even idled. I got blamed
for not checking the GAPs of the plugs, but that was not it. The tuner used
a program for a throttle CABLE system, not electronic, and messed it all up.
Anyway:
You're not the only ones having problems with Bama tunes, but people seem
to be working fine with the built in tunes from the SCT x4. I read one guy,
went through the same thing, but for a shifting issue they could not fix. Another
gave up...
I can go on and on...
- Repeat the procedure 2 more times. [/quote]
As mentioned, if the ECU was updated, it changes, even if you never had tuned
it prior to getting the tuner.
Do ANY of the canned tunes work? Like, an 87 octane, or 91 octane?
Not the 93 race tune, but at least try the 87 and 91, to make sure they
work. IF they don't then you have some weird ECU issue...
It should have at least 3 built in ones, and can hold 10 custom tunes.
Using one of the canned tunes, and having it WORK, will eliminate the
possibility your ECU just won't work with it. This will directly narrow it
down to either, someone's error, coding the Bama tune, or they just can't for
your engine configuration. People mostly use Bama tunes for more than
just a CAI bolt on. Larger MAF, Throttle body, bigger injectors. IF your
motor is stock with just a CAI, Bama tunes ares probably not for you, try
one of the canned tunes to verify that A tune works...
Even something as simple as, they're using V8 values for your V6... You never
know... We once sent an ECU for a V8 Dakota out to be programmed, with
drive by wire. When the ECU came back, it hardly even idled. I got blamed
for not checking the GAPs of the plugs, but that was not it. The tuner used
a program for a throttle CABLE system, not electronic, and messed it all up.
Anyway:
You're not the only ones having problems with Bama tunes, but people seem
to be working fine with the built in tunes from the SCT x4. I read one guy,
went through the same thing, but for a shifting issue they could not fix. Another
gave up...
Had nothing, but issues with BAMA tunes. Finally gave up on them and moved on...
I wouldn't let Bama tune my lawnmower. Their tuning abilities are about as competent as Ray Charles trying to be a sharpshooter.
I used to have a BAMA V1 tune in mine before I did a local dyno tune. Even the local tuner said the timings and other parameters were all ****ed up.
Before V2, there was some questionable stuff in the tune, at least there was in mine when I dissected it to see what it was doing. A tune is
a really easy thing to **** up hard, or get mildly right for everybody. I've heard the V2 tunes are much improved... but they can't be "the ****" if AM
just started carrying VMP tunes.
a really easy thing to **** up hard, or get mildly right for everybody. I've heard the V2 tunes are much improved... but they can't be "the ****" if AM
just started carrying VMP tunes.
Bama tunes suck *****.
One suggestion. After installing a tune, recalibrate the throttle body/gas pedal (wrench light).
- Turn the key to the 'ON' position(do not start the engine), and wait for the dash warning lights to go out and the chime to stop.
- Turn off all electrical accessories.
- Press the gas pedal all the way down in one smooth motion while counting to 5 (1001, 1002....).
- Slowly release the gas pedal while counting to 5.
- Wait 6 seconds.
- Turn key to 'OFF'.
- Wait 6 seconds.
- Turn the key to the 'ON' position(do not start the engine), and wait for the dash warning lights to go out and the chime to stop.
- Turn off all electrical accessories.
- Press the gas pedal all the way down in one smooth motion while counting to 5 (1001, 1002....).
- Slowly release the gas pedal while counting to 5.
- Wait 6 seconds.
- Turn key to 'OFF'.
- Wait 6 seconds.
