Tig

I saw those stiffler subframe connectors. They look cool but, I'll stick with the traditional connectors.

I'm curious about this topic to. My plans are for more streetability to and do plan on finding some road courses or autoX.
My list so far is
1. full length subframe connectors
2. strut tower brace
3. c/c plates
4. phb or watts
5. I'm stumped on what I should go with for shocks/struts/coils or if I should look into coil-overs. Coil-overs would save some weight.

My other question is = Would a 4 or 6 point roll bar be too over the top? It would help dramatically with stiffening the chassis.

Thanks

Jazzer The Cat

Have you done any AX to this point?

The reason I ask, is if not..... WAIT! Don't do any suspension or performance mods until you have done at least 4~5 of them. Reason being is that one can learn some bad habbits with such mods and best to learn on what you already know.

I will hold your questions "hostage" until such time you answer the above question

Jazzer

Norm Peterson

If you think you'll be competing at auto-X on more than just an occassional basis, you'll want to review the rules for the various classes. Reason being that making some of the mods commonly mentioned on the various internet sites can get you re-classed upward, where you won't be as competitive. The only things on your list that are legal to either change or add in F Stock are the shocks and struts and some version of a roll bar.

Note that there also are some class limitations on the installation details of some of the items that you mentioned even in the classes where some version is permitted. For example, a 3-point STB is not legal in the Street Touring category, but a 2-point is (I think a 3-point sends you up to C Prepared). Likewise, there are some limitations in some of the classes on how SFCs may be installed.


Norm

Tig

No, unfortunately I have not

Good advice, I will definately take it to heart and find some events where I can get started. The only mod I am going to do is my AOD to T5 swap and maybe some new tires for my stock 10 holes, hah. Unless I can find some new wheels/tires foe short $$$$.

I'll ask you nicely. Could you please let my question go, please?



Thank you very much, you have provided me with some very helpful information.
My first question. How do I find an up to date rule book for such events?
Unfortunately, I have no idea what you said in your second paragraph, its all chinese to me.


You guys are great, I appreciate all your help and info.
Thanks again

I'm off to do a search for Auto X info.

Jazzer The Cat

he he...

The absolute numero-uno, first thing, most important item is...... The driver-mod! This means, go to an event and just talk driving. Just about everyone at an AX event is happy to talk driving and tips. The one thing to always remember is to have fun This will keep you loose and open to suggestions from those who are more familar. First time through, just complete the course and don't worry about your time. Keep your focus on making it through without hitting a cone. Second time, try to follow a bit closer to some of the lines by those that are faster than you. Just accelerate at your own pace and remember to ONLY compete with yourself for many, many runs.

Tires ~ The most important "tangable" item is tires. Follow the advice of Norm and make sure you remain in the class you prefer, if you look to get new tires.

Brakes ~ Brakes will not get hot, unless you have some VERY unusual course layout that is long.

Springs/dampers ~ (keep reading)

Suspension ~ Your a Fox Body, so your mod-list will be long if you fall in love with AX and plan to complete with others in your class (rembembering this is probably after 20 runs into AX, IMO).

A: FLSFC's ~ an absolute must on the Fox
B: LCA's ~ Read my suspension guide for a "Jazzer approved" one
C: Shocks/struts/springs ~ I have purposely left this third, as the question I will always ask those looking to mod his/her car comes at this point...


Suspension is VERY difficult to do efficiently. That is to say, avoiding the replacement of things you have ALREADY done. Springs are usually high on this list and dampers are next, most of the time. Think long and hard on this question, to avoid doing what I and soo many others have done prior to finding the car in the driveway to be the ULTIMATE ride for YOU!

Jazzer

Norm Peterson

Go to www.scca.com and poke around for the Solo rules. I'd give you a better link except that my internet connection at work blocks that whole site.

The second paragraph deals specifically with SCCA's position on a couple of the mods you mentioned, which might affect which particular mfr you end up buying them from or how you install them once you've got them. Yes, SCCA gets kind of picky about mods sometimes, but that's what keeps the guy with a lightly modified car from having to compete directly against those with stripped/lightened/heavily modified race cars that aren't even close to being useable on a daily basis.


Don't forget to have fun.


Norm

Waferboy

So, if I were to step through this upgrade what do you think the steps are? I understand step 1 would be FLSFC. What would you do next?

Also, it's not completely clear to me what it takes to drop the UCA's? Is it a PHB or WL? Or do the either the PHB or WL lead to other parts needed.

Again, coilovers... Any recommendations? I'm sure you guys have run different brands over the years, any favorites? I won't hold it against you if I don't like them for some reason, I just know I'm going to put in something and I'd prefer anything recommended over my random pick.

More questions to come for sure.

Thanks again folks!

Waferboy

Jazzer The Cat

IMO, the upgrades of suspension for a pre-S197 are...

1. FLSFC's
2. LCA's (remember.... Jazzer approved )
3. Decision time...

Decision time, as for the reason I mentioned earlier. Suspension is VERY difficult to do efficiently and can spend a lot of money replacing parts. Note: I did not say "waste" money, as valuable experience is the result of replacing parts, but hard on the wallet

To rid oneself of the UCA's, one needs to go one of a couple directions. One way, what I have done and much more common, is the PHB/TA combo. You need either a PHB or WL with TA to remove them. Cannot do so without BOTH of their needs being addressed. One is side/side deflection, while the other is axle-wrap. If you want to do some AX or open-track, these items are a VERY good upgrade that will pay dividends in a big way! They are helpful on a street car, but your wallet will have to be the deciding factor here.

If you want to go CO's, the "Decision" needs to be made, because if you go with a PHB or WL with TA, the rates will differ (be heavier) from what they would be if you run them on your 4-link.

I recommend you do LOTS of research and get your head around all this, so you don't just follow scrubs like me and Norm () to separate you from your money

Jazzer

Waferboy

Thanks for the advice. I think I'm going to be "all in" on most of this stuff because in the end I don't think I can really go wrong. I've been on the same ol' suspension since 1997 with this car and even if I don't get it perfect, I don't see how I can get any worse than what I've got. I'm not going to try to compete like crazy with this car so if things are the best they can be I'm not going to sweat losing the fraction of a second. I know that the changes that are coming are going to improve this car immensely and for now I'm not going to sweat the small stuff.

One other thing. You mention the CO's with the PHB/TA combo and the rates being "heavier"... what do you mean by that? Within reason, shouldn't I be able to take a CO and adjust out anything I don't like?

Jazzer The Cat

Actually... you can! Keep in mind that ULTIMATE goal and just keep asking questions for those things you are not sure. Do lots of research and don't listen to only one person and that includes me.

The rear springs for a CO are somewhere around 1.5x heavier due to the change in pivot location of rear axle. Since the UCA connection is originally about 8" away from centerline of axle, the TA connection is now approx. 3' farther forward. The extra rate is to compensate for the greater leverage applied to the resistance (springs). I am sure Norm could word that a hell of a lot better, but think you get the jist.

The CO shock you have "might" be fine, but would need to upgrade the spring to maintain a similar ride quality. I say "might", because the extra rate needed would likely over-burden the shock and leave it with less than adequate compensation for up/down control. With the increase in leverage, the car would probably sit a bit lower with a TA installation. Adjusting the CO height would get you back up to the same elevation, but the increase in leverage would make you bottom out more easily and have excessive travel of shocks. Again, Norm would explain this better, as I have heard him described as a Chef. The rest of us are just short-order cooks

Jazzer