1000 ft-lb Clutch and Tranny
05-29-2009, 02:40 AM
#33
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Near China now...
Posts: 314
I'm going to give you a thumbs up on this one Coty. I think that you are in for a hell of a time getting this combo sorted, but I will help in any way that I can. You can do anything if you have the patience (AND BUDGET in this case). So with that being said...
Clutch/tranny...you will need a minimum of two plates. RAM, McLeod, etc...get the all Kevlar and you should be good. There are single plates that can hold 1K, but not forever.A DFX has done it before. Tranny, you're best bet (if you MUST stay manual) is a GForce or Liberty prepped T56. You could also buy a high end Jericho 4 speed or the INSANELY epxensive Pro-Stock style manuals.
Turbo configuration...I beg you to stay away from sequentials. Their down fall is the small turbo. All of your exhaust energy still has to go through the small turbo's. So in this case, your SMALL turbo's will have to be able to flow enough to make close to your power goal. Your small turbos would need to be a MINIMUM of a 60-67mm. I would advise that 4 equal size turbos will be far more appropriate for what you are trying to accomplish. 4 67's will support roughly 2K HP if not more...if you send me your engine specs I can do the math for you. Also, if you're only going for 1000 HP, it will be SOOO much easier with just a twin setup. (I had to say it bro). You should say you want to make 1500-2K HP...then we'd be getting somewhere.
Intercooling considerations:
Air to water AND air to air can be done. If you run a front mount intercooler with the discharge tube running to inside the passenger compartment (think NMRA Renegade), you could then have a Air to water in the passenger seat with a discharge tube going through the FW back into the engine. However, most racers don't do this because air to waters are so much better in this configuration that an Air to Air would just be overkill and only be worth a few degrees f.
Oiling:
A stock wet-style system would not be recommended here. A dry sump with 2 chambers dedicated to the turbos should be considered a must. Also, one helluvan oil cooler setup WILL BE NEEDED! 4 turbo's will create a TON of heat, and even a racing oil won't live long. One scavenge pump might not be the greatest idea either, because if one fails, you'll lose 4 turbo's. I would also consider mounting locations first. Either all 4 underhood or all 4 in the rear. This will make supplying oil/piping far easier. The hot-side is going to be your hardest hurdle. All 4 turbos breath the same exhaust...so I think a trunk mounted setup will be the easiest way. It would also free up precious real estate for your oiling system. You're going to need a lot of custom parts, so hopefully your sponsors can come through with some of the funding because most of them you can't buy off the shelf.
Engine tuning:
will actually not be bad as long as you use a blow through MAF or a stand-alone speed density system. Any tuner should be able to tune it if they're knowledgeable. The advantage is that 1 turbo is no different than 4. The computer just measures volume/density/velocity/temp of the air and adds fuel accordingly.
One question?
what car are you doing this to? You didn't mention.
Edit:
Man with the engine you already have 1K would be so easy with twins. Like 61's would do it with that combo. But for the sake of you being a pioneer...I need your fuel system specs and cam specs.
Clutch/tranny...you will need a minimum of two plates. RAM, McLeod, etc...get the all Kevlar and you should be good. There are single plates that can hold 1K, but not forever.A DFX has done it before. Tranny, you're best bet (if you MUST stay manual) is a GForce or Liberty prepped T56. You could also buy a high end Jericho 4 speed or the INSANELY epxensive Pro-Stock style manuals.
Turbo configuration...I beg you to stay away from sequentials. Their down fall is the small turbo. All of your exhaust energy still has to go through the small turbo's. So in this case, your SMALL turbo's will have to be able to flow enough to make close to your power goal. Your small turbos would need to be a MINIMUM of a 60-67mm. I would advise that 4 equal size turbos will be far more appropriate for what you are trying to accomplish. 4 67's will support roughly 2K HP if not more...if you send me your engine specs I can do the math for you. Also, if you're only going for 1000 HP, it will be SOOO much easier with just a twin setup. (I had to say it bro). You should say you want to make 1500-2K HP...then we'd be getting somewhere.
Intercooling considerations:
Air to water AND air to air can be done. If you run a front mount intercooler with the discharge tube running to inside the passenger compartment (think NMRA Renegade), you could then have a Air to water in the passenger seat with a discharge tube going through the FW back into the engine. However, most racers don't do this because air to waters are so much better in this configuration that an Air to Air would just be overkill and only be worth a few degrees f.
Oiling:
A stock wet-style system would not be recommended here. A dry sump with 2 chambers dedicated to the turbos should be considered a must. Also, one helluvan oil cooler setup WILL BE NEEDED! 4 turbo's will create a TON of heat, and even a racing oil won't live long. One scavenge pump might not be the greatest idea either, because if one fails, you'll lose 4 turbo's. I would also consider mounting locations first. Either all 4 underhood or all 4 in the rear. This will make supplying oil/piping far easier. The hot-side is going to be your hardest hurdle. All 4 turbos breath the same exhaust...so I think a trunk mounted setup will be the easiest way. It would also free up precious real estate for your oiling system. You're going to need a lot of custom parts, so hopefully your sponsors can come through with some of the funding because most of them you can't buy off the shelf.
Engine tuning:
will actually not be bad as long as you use a blow through MAF or a stand-alone speed density system. Any tuner should be able to tune it if they're knowledgeable. The advantage is that 1 turbo is no different than 4. The computer just measures volume/density/velocity/temp of the air and adds fuel accordingly.
One question?
what car are you doing this to? You didn't mention.
Edit:
Man with the engine you already have 1K would be so easy with twins. Like 61's would do it with that combo. But for the sake of you being a pioneer...I need your fuel system specs and cam specs.
Last edited by Smokin04; 05-29-2009 at 02:47 AM.
05-29-2009, 08:32 AM
#35
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: California
Posts: 1,092
Dude! he doesnt need this type of help.... hes already got the WHOLE thing figured out!!!! he has blueprinted the Thermodynamics of cooling fuel, he even figured out a way to stump physicists and get copper to outperform aluminum in a cooling setup (that alone is a million dollar idea, but he's saving it for this car) and im assuming he figured out a way to make copper lighter than aluminum also, to avoid this custom cooling system weighing as much as a tank.
He got through all this.... but got hung up on the complexity of a clutch.
and all this for under 13k!!
I heard that he'll start mass producing these things, as a turn key 1000hp race car.
Too bad theres already a "Smart Car" out there... cause damn the name just slipped through your fingers
He got through all this.... but got hung up on the complexity of a clutch.
and all this for under 13k!!
I heard that he'll start mass producing these things, as a turn key 1000hp race car.
Too bad theres already a "Smart Car" out there... cause damn the name just slipped through your fingers
05-29-2009, 10:07 AM
#36
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Newnan, GA
Posts: 586
'Remote mount' refers to the turbocharges being mounted beyond the firewall.
Regarding the still air/water vs moving air/water, the rate of heat transfer will still be 17 times higher, if the substances are flowing at the same rate.
On a dyno, the rate of air flow will be either 0, or the maximum flow rate of the fan in front of the car. Either way, the air will not be flowing 17 times faster than cold water being pumped by 12V water pumps at any flow rate desired...
Additionally, the use of a copper heat transfer core as opposed to an aluminum core will yield about a 20% gain in efficiency.
If the engine is built to take 1500 horsepower, I really don't see the problem of flowing enough air through 4 compressors rather than 2.
Regarding the still air/water vs moving air/water, the rate of heat transfer will still be 17 times higher, if the substances are flowing at the same rate.
On a dyno, the rate of air flow will be either 0, or the maximum flow rate of the fan in front of the car. Either way, the air will not be flowing 17 times faster than cold water being pumped by 12V water pumps at any flow rate desired...
Additionally, the use of a copper heat transfer core as opposed to an aluminum core will yield about a 20% gain in efficiency.
If the engine is built to take 1500 horsepower, I really don't see the problem of flowing enough air through 4 compressors rather than 2.
^ read
05-29-2009, 02:57 PM
#37
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 32
Finally, thank you Smokin04, for some reasonable advice.
As far as cost goes, I've only ever spent $100 in labor on either of my cars. I do everything on my own.
Smokin04 - these are the engine build specs.
BLOCK: Level 10 race prepped aluminum block - deck equalized and squared, deck plate bored and honed .020" in CV616 with sub 10 micron filtered man-845 honing oil, and numerous other race prepped operations. RODS: 4340 forged 5.850" H-Beams w/ ARP 2000 bolts and full floating pins. CRANK: forged 3.75" stroke. PISTONS: forged Pro-X # 4645 (Max Quench -18cc). RINGS: plasma-moly E-916K. ROD-BEARINGS: tri-metal CB-745P. MAIN BEARINGS: severe duty tri-metal 149M.
Longblock assembled with Ford Racing High Performance "FR500" DOHC heads, FRPP "High Lift Camshaft Kit," new rockers, lifters, high volume oil pump, ARP head studs, Cometic MLS performance Head Gaskets, etc.
This is going into my '99 Cobra.
As far as space, I'm relocating the gas tank to a 10gallon unit in the trunk, so I'll have plenty of room ahead of the rear axle, and I'm scrapping the bench seats and adding sheet metal to create some room further up (hammering and welding sheet metal is not something I would pay a shop to do, I'm doing it myself). I haven't purchased a fuel system yet, so I'm open to recommendations on what to get.
As far as cost goes, I've only ever spent $100 in labor on either of my cars. I do everything on my own.
Smokin04 - these are the engine build specs.
BLOCK: Level 10 race prepped aluminum block - deck equalized and squared, deck plate bored and honed .020" in CV616 with sub 10 micron filtered man-845 honing oil, and numerous other race prepped operations. RODS: 4340 forged 5.850" H-Beams w/ ARP 2000 bolts and full floating pins. CRANK: forged 3.75" stroke. PISTONS: forged Pro-X # 4645 (Max Quench -18cc). RINGS: plasma-moly E-916K. ROD-BEARINGS: tri-metal CB-745P. MAIN BEARINGS: severe duty tri-metal 149M.
Longblock assembled with Ford Racing High Performance "FR500" DOHC heads, FRPP "High Lift Camshaft Kit," new rockers, lifters, high volume oil pump, ARP head studs, Cometic MLS performance Head Gaskets, etc.
This is going into my '99 Cobra.
As far as space, I'm relocating the gas tank to a 10gallon unit in the trunk, so I'll have plenty of room ahead of the rear axle, and I'm scrapping the bench seats and adding sheet metal to create some room further up (hammering and welding sheet metal is not something I would pay a shop to do, I'm doing it myself). I haven't purchased a fuel system yet, so I'm open to recommendations on what to get.
05-29-2009, 03:07 PM
#38
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 32
The pressurized air will be passing through an insulated stainless steel chamber, with 180 separate 1/4" ID copper pipes which will flow the cooling water...circulated by 12V in-line bilge pumps.
I'm building at least two of these units.