If they put a 4 banger in it there will be trouble
06-15-2013, 09:41 AM
#31
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: CO
Posts: 310
What's with the wiener stereotyping? As I get older it is not so much that I do burnouts all over the place, rather I have it and choose not to use it. Restraint as opposed to obnoxious displays of youth... nothing to do with weiners.
It is also a function of asking why would I want something that I can get in a Toyota Camry? I guess it is just the style, but to me it is settling for less, when you can have more. Like getting a hot wife that has a pea size brain. It is a personal choice and with that always comes some sort of rationalization. But that's people, many choices for many reasons. I don't agree with the philosophy "I'm old so I don't need it." I will not go quietly into the night.
Back on topic, I will respect the turbo 4 cyl when the ST class beats the GS class.. I wonder if FORD will put it on the same track as their V8.. maybe they'll just pack it up, we'll see.. What is interesting to me is the one GS Subaru STI that was in the Continental series could never seem to consistently win and finish. Why don't the manufacturers enter a turbo 4 to decimate the V8's? Certainly the time has come right? Those old V8's are now a thing of the past...
http://www.grand-am.com/scheduleResu...eid=3480&sid=2
To me it is racing, not street perceptions and things that look good on paper that define the true metal of engineering.
Funny there is a racing series called American Iron
http://www.nasaponycars.com/
It is also a function of asking why would I want something that I can get in a Toyota Camry? I guess it is just the style, but to me it is settling for less, when you can have more. Like getting a hot wife that has a pea size brain. It is a personal choice and with that always comes some sort of rationalization. But that's people, many choices for many reasons. I don't agree with the philosophy "I'm old so I don't need it." I will not go quietly into the night.
Back on topic, I will respect the turbo 4 cyl when the ST class beats the GS class.. I wonder if FORD will put it on the same track as their V8.. maybe they'll just pack it up, we'll see.. What is interesting to me is the one GS Subaru STI that was in the Continental series could never seem to consistently win and finish. Why don't the manufacturers enter a turbo 4 to decimate the V8's? Certainly the time has come right? Those old V8's are now a thing of the past...
http://www.grand-am.com/scheduleResu...eid=3480&sid=2
To me it is racing, not street perceptions and things that look good on paper that define the true metal of engineering.
Funny there is a racing series called American Iron
http://www.nasaponycars.com/
08-25-2013, 07:29 PM
#32
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location:
Posts: 298
It was already said that the 4cyl is only for the european market which kinda makes this thread moot unless yall are from Europe.
My dad has a 4cyl Mustang engine complete with transmission in the garage, never heard 1 single complaint from him about it. (he has some V8 engine blocks and other things too. but that is the only complete engine he has there. He doesn't bother with this stuff any more anyways.)
I agree with Hadimar05. I did some burnouts when I got it but haven't for a while unless on accident. Usually that is a new car thing. According to the dealer my tires are still brand new.
I'm not brand loyal any more. Most folk on the commute drive 4cyl cars with automatics. Disrespect? why? It doesn't make sense. Even the 19yr old kid across the street has a 4cyl car and before that the one that got stolen was 4cyl as well. I see a lot more traffic violations / stupidity coming from Corollas, Rav4s and Sentras on the freeway than any other car out there, speeding wise anyway. Sometimes even hybrids. People do drive hybrids to and from where they are going at 80+mph. Foolish if you ask me not because of fuel economy but because they normally do it where there is known to be a large CHP presence.
And yeah I read the ST people like their car more than the current 6cyl mustang. It's all different stuff anyway.
Just get what you want. There's always going to be complainers. It is free to complain and it is a free country. So by all means. But it is annoying altogether and no good will come of it.
You will always find a lot of people who will buy it in any configuration that you throw at it. It's their money not yours. Plus Ford is there to build cars and make money. It is a business, not a hot rod catering show.
4cyl Accord Sport is available at the dealers and it is peppy enough. Ford would only put out a 4cyl with more power than that car has. 4cyl was rumored to be turbo and Hondas is non turbo. As I've been saying for days, all these manufacturers can do the same thing. They all have the same stuff available to them. Ford and Honda both are making advanced production vehicles. But their business practices may be entirely different. Japanese tend to stick to old ways, Americans tend to at least try to progress. This is why you'll find a lot more 4cyl Honda and a lot more 6-8cyl in Ford depending on the vehicle (sometimes 10cyl right, I think Ford makes 10cyl trucks unless they sold that division, I forgot the name of the company wasn't it Sterling or something).
It wouldn't be surprising to find out if most vehicles sold by this company are in fact 4cyl FWD. Not surprising at all.
My dad has a 4cyl Mustang engine complete with transmission in the garage, never heard 1 single complaint from him about it. (he has some V8 engine blocks and other things too. but that is the only complete engine he has there. He doesn't bother with this stuff any more anyways.)
I agree with Hadimar05. I did some burnouts when I got it but haven't for a while unless on accident. Usually that is a new car thing. According to the dealer my tires are still brand new.
I'm not brand loyal any more. Most folk on the commute drive 4cyl cars with automatics. Disrespect? why? It doesn't make sense. Even the 19yr old kid across the street has a 4cyl car and before that the one that got stolen was 4cyl as well. I see a lot more traffic violations / stupidity coming from Corollas, Rav4s and Sentras on the freeway than any other car out there, speeding wise anyway. Sometimes even hybrids. People do drive hybrids to and from where they are going at 80+mph. Foolish if you ask me not because of fuel economy but because they normally do it where there is known to be a large CHP presence.
And yeah I read the ST people like their car more than the current 6cyl mustang. It's all different stuff anyway.
Just get what you want. There's always going to be complainers. It is free to complain and it is a free country. So by all means. But it is annoying altogether and no good will come of it.
You will always find a lot of people who will buy it in any configuration that you throw at it. It's their money not yours. Plus Ford is there to build cars and make money. It is a business, not a hot rod catering show.4cyl Accord Sport is available at the dealers and it is peppy enough. Ford would only put out a 4cyl with more power than that car has. 4cyl was rumored to be turbo and Hondas is non turbo. As I've been saying for days, all these manufacturers can do the same thing. They all have the same stuff available to them. Ford and Honda both are making advanced production vehicles. But their business practices may be entirely different. Japanese tend to stick to old ways, Americans tend to at least try to progress. This is why you'll find a lot more 4cyl Honda and a lot more 6-8cyl in Ford depending on the vehicle (sometimes 10cyl right, I think Ford makes 10cyl trucks unless they sold that division, I forgot the name of the company wasn't it Sterling or something).
It wouldn't be surprising to find out if most vehicles sold by this company are in fact 4cyl FWD. Not surprising at all.
Last edited by amptor; 08-25-2013 at 07:40 PM.
09-03-2013, 08:48 AM
#33
My 2 cents...
1. If you don't think the Mustang is a Muscle Car, you've obviously never heard of a 428 Cobra Jet. 427? Boss 302? Boss 429, anyone? Those weren't muscle cars at all, were they...
2. If you measure your ***** size by displacement, you will be one of the 'nothing but a V8' crowd...
3. Mustang has always come in two different levels. There is the economy side with the 200 straight six's, the 2.3's, 3.8's, 4.0, etc... Then there's the performance side with the V8's. That's the beauty of the Mustang. Not that it's the most badass thing on the street, or that it gets the mileage of a Fiesta, but that it offers something for everyone.
I'm 49 years old and I quit needing a 9 second car a long time ago. I now drive a 4.0 convertible that looks good and I will feel perfectly safe handing over to my son when he turns 16. The Mustang is a great car in all of it's various incarnations and if you can't appreciate that, then go buy a PT Cruiser...
1. If you don't think the Mustang is a Muscle Car, you've obviously never heard of a 428 Cobra Jet. 427? Boss 302? Boss 429, anyone? Those weren't muscle cars at all, were they...
2. If you measure your ***** size by displacement, you will be one of the 'nothing but a V8' crowd...
3. Mustang has always come in two different levels. There is the economy side with the 200 straight six's, the 2.3's, 3.8's, 4.0, etc... Then there's the performance side with the V8's. That's the beauty of the Mustang. Not that it's the most badass thing on the street, or that it gets the mileage of a Fiesta, but that it offers something for everyone.
I'm 49 years old and I quit needing a 9 second car a long time ago. I now drive a 4.0 convertible that looks good and I will feel perfectly safe handing over to my son when he turns 16. The Mustang is a great car in all of it's various incarnations and if you can't appreciate that, then go buy a PT Cruiser...
As someone who turned 42 this year I am slowly getting away from power power power... My newest is getting mostly appearance mods, aside from the axle backs for some growl.
Like you said, there is a Mustang for everyone, and not everyone needs 400+ HP. The ex-wife had a 2002 V6, while I had my 2000 GT which was S/C (this was 11 years ago, but we both had them, and she enjoyed hers I enjoyed mine.)
I don't buy into the ***** displacement argument. I have always felt that was just a snotty remark to lash out at someone who prefers a V8 over anything else. With the V8, I can see why more folks prefer them because power adders are plentiful, while the V6 crowd tends to get left behind in that aspect, well until recently.
I think Ford bringing the 3.7 to above 300 HP helped wipe the assumed stigma off the V6 car, but there are still some folks who call the V6 the girly car.
V6/V8, it is all buyer and wallet preference.
10-09-2013, 12:16 PM
#34
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: CA
Posts: 9
I think its important to take a mature approach to consider what you really want out of the vehicle. No doubt the V8 will be marketed as the premium Mustang to have but there comes a situation where the 4cyl would outperform the V8 on smaller technical tracks that require more nimbleness and agility. In the end it will come down to weight and where that weight is placed; the 4 cyl could definitely carve out a cult following.
10-09-2013, 02:59 PM
#36
Gentleman's Relish
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: AZ
Posts: 13,090
Currently the V6 mustang is about 70+ percent of the sales. V8 only makes up <30 percent (at best depending on where specifically you look).
My guess is that with the Mustang being available in Europe, that number will only grow for the 4 cyl making it the top selling motor there (80%+). Euro is hella expensive to drive in.
U.S. most likely be 30% 4 cyl, 40% 6 cyl, 30% v8 (like currently)
I'd like to frame this guesstimate and see how accurate I was in a couple of years when they release sales figures for the new model.
10-09-2013, 09:57 PM
#37
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: CO
Posts: 310
If it weren't for the smaller engine that the masses tend to buy, there would be no opportunity for V8 production because the car would no longer exist...
Currently the V6 mustang is about 70+ percent of the sales. V8 only makes up <30 percent (at best depending on where specifically you look).
My guess is that with the Mustang being available in Europe, that number will only grow for the 4 cyl making it the top selling motor there (80%+). Euro is hella expensive to drive in.
U.S. most likely be 30% 4 cyl, 40% 6 cyl, 30% v8 (like currently)
I'd like to frame this guesstimate and see how accurate I was in a couple of years when they release sales figures for the new model.
Currently the V6 mustang is about 70+ percent of the sales. V8 only makes up <30 percent (at best depending on where specifically you look).
My guess is that with the Mustang being available in Europe, that number will only grow for the 4 cyl making it the top selling motor there (80%+). Euro is hella expensive to drive in.
U.S. most likely be 30% 4 cyl, 40% 6 cyl, 30% v8 (like currently)
I'd like to frame this guesstimate and see how accurate I was in a couple of years when they release sales figures for the new model.
Like I said, I don't disagree, but bending to a 4 banger and chassis/body redesign for a more Euro style when Europe will always be dominated by Euro auto makers due to subsidies and such.. well it is UnAmerican in my view and not what makes a Mustang great. Europeans want Mustangs because they are Americana, not because they look and feel like what they can get there.
Citroen
Can't tell that to these guys.. they know better
10-10-2013, 02:18 PM
#38
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: New York
Posts: 272
I have to disagree with you about "what Europe wants".
Ugh, Europe... Actually, I'll tell you want English car drivers want.
In my eyes, a Mustang is a sports car that normal, working class guys can buy, make their own and have fun in. Unfortunately, historically, anything over 2000cc (I think its more judged on carbon emissions now) is taxed so high that the typical lad on £25,000 a year could never afford a V8.
When I was still in the UK, my choice of fun cars was basically hot hatches, and I had one of the all time best ones, a 205 GTi and a Golf GTI (but that felt too controlled, the 205 had much more fun characteristics like lift off over steer). Car companies wanted everything to be simple to build, cheap and small, so must cars were front wheel drive after the mid 80s.
I lusted after the S13 200SX (180SX here) and every other car guy before me did too, so the only decent ones around were drift scarred.
Top Gear paints a picture of them only wanting 5.0 Mustangs. That's true for them, who will be able to afford the car, but for a pretty sizeable set of young men who can't get Impreza STis and WRXs, they'll be champing at the bit to get a £24,000 Mustang with 300bhp.
I remember wanting Ford to bring back the Capri, but they didn't. English drivers dont want a slice of Americana. They want a cheap RWD coupe to take to Brands Hatch or Silverstone on track days and drive around twisty country roads. But they want it more powerful as standard than the GT86
Ugh, Europe... Actually, I'll tell you want English car drivers want.
In my eyes, a Mustang is a sports car that normal, working class guys can buy, make their own and have fun in. Unfortunately, historically, anything over 2000cc (I think its more judged on carbon emissions now) is taxed so high that the typical lad on £25,000 a year could never afford a V8.
When I was still in the UK, my choice of fun cars was basically hot hatches, and I had one of the all time best ones, a 205 GTi and a Golf GTI (but that felt too controlled, the 205 had much more fun characteristics like lift off over steer). Car companies wanted everything to be simple to build, cheap and small, so must cars were front wheel drive after the mid 80s.
I lusted after the S13 200SX (180SX here) and every other car guy before me did too, so the only decent ones around were drift scarred.
Top Gear paints a picture of them only wanting 5.0 Mustangs. That's true for them, who will be able to afford the car, but for a pretty sizeable set of young men who can't get Impreza STis and WRXs, they'll be champing at the bit to get a £24,000 Mustang with 300bhp.
I remember wanting Ford to bring back the Capri, but they didn't. English drivers dont want a slice of Americana. They want a cheap RWD coupe to take to Brands Hatch or Silverstone on track days and drive around twisty country roads. But they want it more powerful as standard than the GT86
Last edited by steev; 10-10-2013 at 02:22 PM.
10-10-2013, 03:08 PM
#39
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Littleton, Colorado
Posts: 247
I race against the 4-cylinder Subaru STS and EVO in rallycross with my '99 and '05 V6s. There is no way I can possibly keep up the hundred-plus extra HP. A ride in one leaves no doubt these are powerful cars. Based on economy cars, the feel isn't mustang-like, but I have full confidence Ford will get the look and feel right.
10-10-2013, 09:54 PM
#40
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: CO
Posts: 310
I have to disagree with you about "what Europe wants".
Ugh, Europe... Actually, I'll tell you want English car drivers want.
In my eyes, a Mustang is a sports car that normal, working class guys can buy, make their own and have fun in. Unfortunately, historically, anything over 2000cc (I think its more judged on carbon emissions now) is taxed so high that the typical lad on £25,000 a year could never afford a V8.
When I was still in the UK, my choice of fun cars was basically hot hatches, and I had one of the all time best ones, a 205 GTi and a Golf GTI (but that felt too controlled, the 205 had much more fun characteristics like lift off over steer). Car companies wanted everything to be simple to build, cheap and small, so must cars were front wheel drive after the mid 80s.
I lusted after the S13 200SX (180SX here) and every other car guy before me did too, so the only decent ones around were drift scarred.
Top Gear paints a picture of them only wanting 5.0 Mustangs. That's true for them, who will be able to afford the car, but for a pretty sizeable set of young men who can't get Impreza STis and WRXs, they'll be champing at the bit to get a £24,000 Mustang with 300bhp.
I remember wanting Ford to bring back the Capri, but they didn't. English drivers dont want a slice of Americana. They want a cheap RWD coupe to take to Brands Hatch or Silverstone on track days and drive around twisty country roads. But they want it more powerful as standard than the GT86
Ugh, Europe... Actually, I'll tell you want English car drivers want.
In my eyes, a Mustang is a sports car that normal, working class guys can buy, make their own and have fun in. Unfortunately, historically, anything over 2000cc (I think its more judged on carbon emissions now) is taxed so high that the typical lad on £25,000 a year could never afford a V8.
When I was still in the UK, my choice of fun cars was basically hot hatches, and I had one of the all time best ones, a 205 GTi and a Golf GTI (but that felt too controlled, the 205 had much more fun characteristics like lift off over steer). Car companies wanted everything to be simple to build, cheap and small, so must cars were front wheel drive after the mid 80s.
I lusted after the S13 200SX (180SX here) and every other car guy before me did too, so the only decent ones around were drift scarred.
Top Gear paints a picture of them only wanting 5.0 Mustangs. That's true for them, who will be able to afford the car, but for a pretty sizeable set of young men who can't get Impreza STis and WRXs, they'll be champing at the bit to get a £24,000 Mustang with 300bhp.
I remember wanting Ford to bring back the Capri, but they didn't. English drivers dont want a slice of Americana. They want a cheap RWD coupe to take to Brands Hatch or Silverstone on track days and drive around twisty country roads. But they want it more powerful as standard than the GT86