MT z/28 Discussion and what Ford needs to do to Continue to Compete
07-24-2013, 06:27 AM
#11
2010 Blue Ball Award Recipient
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Eskimo Village, Indiana *No Igloo*
Posts: 7,907
The Z-28 is a 1LE with some additional lightening to compensate for the 427 cu in Corvette engine in it right?
... the Camaro 1LE cannot beat an old live axle Boss LS. So implying the Z28 will be superior is not accurate from what I have read. This is of course is my opinion...
So if you are still scratching your head, I don't know what to say...
... the Camaro 1LE cannot beat an old live axle Boss LS. So implying the Z28 will be superior is not accurate from what I have read. This is of course is my opinion...
So if you are still scratching your head, I don't know what to say...
2. Granted the tests were not on the same day, the times posted had the 1LE faster than a boss.
3. I shall continue to scratch away.
07-24-2013, 09:00 PM
#13
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: New York
Posts: 272
This is what Ford and GM should have in their sights though...
Make a Mustang GT that can get round corners like this but also beat it in a straight line, and they'll be onto a winner.
http://drive.jalopnik.com/is-the-new...r-im-900234128
Make a Mustang GT that can get round corners like this but also beat it in a straight line, and they'll be onto a winner.
http://drive.jalopnik.com/is-the-new...r-im-900234128
07-31-2013, 04:55 PM
#14
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 11,278
Talking 2014 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28 with Chief Engineer Al Oppenheiser! Wide Open Throttle Ep. 74 - YouTube
If there is one thing that I think Ford HAS to do with the s550 platform is improve handling DRASTICALLY.
There is a such thing as remembering where you came from, but hopefully this IRS as well as some more competent suspension and handling upgrades will keep the Mustang competitive as the Camaro inherits Corvette parts and GM's MagRide technology.
I'm quite tired of the Mustang having higher HP/TQ and performing not as well on the track and in a straight line as other cars in the segment with more competent handling. The only Mustang I feel to truly accomplish the track mindset is the 2012-2013 Mustang BOSS 302/Laguna Seca. I would hope Ford brings some of what made that car special down to it's other mustang models.
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What do you guys think the S550 gen needs in order to continue to compete with something like the z/28?
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Also, does anyone else think for needs a hero car to compete in the Corvette/Viper segment? Bring back the Ford GT, I say.
If there is one thing that I think Ford HAS to do with the s550 platform is improve handling DRASTICALLY.
There is a such thing as remembering where you came from, but hopefully this IRS as well as some more competent suspension and handling upgrades will keep the Mustang competitive as the Camaro inherits Corvette parts and GM's MagRide technology.
I'm quite tired of the Mustang having higher HP/TQ and performing not as well on the track and in a straight line as other cars in the segment with more competent handling. The only Mustang I feel to truly accomplish the track mindset is the 2012-2013 Mustang BOSS 302/Laguna Seca. I would hope Ford brings some of what made that car special down to it's other mustang models.
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What do you guys think the S550 gen needs in order to continue to compete with something like the z/28?
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Also, does anyone else think for needs a hero car to compete in the Corvette/Viper segment? Bring back the Ford GT, I say.
How many times have you had your mustang on a track. IRS is for the simple minded, it's not needed and hopefully not going to happen.
07-31-2013, 05:00 PM
#15
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 11,278
Have you guys driven a Gen 5 Camaro? I got a 1SS when they came out. It was a pig with massive understeer and to modify the suspension cost big bucks compared to an S197.
If it had shorter gears, it might have been a bit more fun, but at altitude with 20" tires, it is no better spinning the tires than my 300 HP 4.6L.
This magride stuff that came out on the 1LE, and supposedly that could not beat a Boss.. so throw in a big block equivalent motor, the only thing they will do on the track is restrict it and the mass is no different than before according to the expected weight.
That said, the Gen 6 Camaro might be interesting as long as it does not look like the latest rendition of Bumblebee.
All this performance talk is great, but if they ruin the look (I like) does not mean much to me. I drove a Lambo today.. I would take it over a Camaro, but not over my Mustang.
If it had shorter gears, it might have been a bit more fun, but at altitude with 20" tires, it is no better spinning the tires than my 300 HP 4.6L.
This magride stuff that came out on the 1LE, and supposedly that could not beat a Boss.. so throw in a big block equivalent motor, the only thing they will do on the track is restrict it and the mass is no different than before according to the expected weight.
That said, the Gen 6 Camaro might be interesting as long as it does not look like the latest rendition of Bumblebee.
All this performance talk is great, but if they ruin the look (I like) does not mean much to me. I drove a Lambo today.. I would take it over a Camaro, but not over my Mustang.
07-31-2013, 09:57 PM
#16
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: CO
Posts: 310
Just when you thought the world was upside down, someone turns it back upright....
One thing I will give them credit for setting me straight though... the 1LE did not come out with the magride suspension... Last I knew it was supposed to but like all good bean counters, they must have taken that option away... otherwise, it would have been a purported Z-28 without the 427...
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179027
One thing I will give them credit for setting me straight though... the 1LE did not come out with the magride suspension... Last I knew it was supposed to but like all good bean counters, they must have taken that option away... otherwise, it would have been a purported Z-28 without the 427...
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179027
Last edited by Hamidar05; 07-31-2013 at 10:13 PM.
08-07-2013, 06:39 PM
#17
S197 Section Modder-ator
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orlando FL
Posts: 13,373
OP, you need to broaden your horizon and learn...
The S197 platform has been the most successful on the track (road course) than any other Mustang platform out there, mostly in Europe.
The irony is that it's the heaviest and longest of all but thanks to the stiff body shell, it worked good.
I just wonder what that car could do with a shorter wheel base and about 800lbs lighter, I'd work towards that before worrying about the IRS.
The S197 platform has been the most successful on the track (road course) than any other Mustang platform out there, mostly in Europe.
The irony is that it's the heaviest and longest of all but thanks to the stiff body shell, it worked good.
I just wonder what that car could do with a shorter wheel base and about 800lbs lighter, I'd work towards that before worrying about the IRS.
08-07-2013, 09:44 PM
#18
OP, you need to broaden your horizon and learn...
The S197 platform has been the most successful on the track (road course) than any other Mustang platform out there, mostly in Europe.
The irony is that it's the heaviest and longest of all but thanks to the stiff body shell, it worked good.
I just wonder what that car could do with a shorter wheel base and about 800lbs lighter, I'd work towards that before worrying about the IRS.
The S197 platform has been the most successful on the track (road course) than any other Mustang platform out there, mostly in Europe.
The irony is that it's the heaviest and longest of all but thanks to the stiff body shell, it worked good.
I just wonder what that car could do with a shorter wheel base and about 800lbs lighter, I'd work towards that before worrying about the IRS.
08-07-2013, 09:51 PM
#19
OP, you need to broaden your horizon and learn...
The S197 platform has been the most successful on the track (road course) than any other Mustang platform out there, mostly in Europe.
The irony is that it's the heaviest and longest of all but thanks to the stiff body shell, it worked good.
I just wonder what that car could do with a shorter wheel base and about 800lbs lighter, I'd work towards that before worrying about the IRS.
The S197 platform has been the most successful on the track (road course) than any other Mustang platform out there, mostly in Europe.
The irony is that it's the heaviest and longest of all but thanks to the stiff body shell, it worked good.
I just wonder what that car could do with a shorter wheel base and about 800lbs lighter, I'd work towards that before worrying about the IRS.
Furthermore, the post asks what Ford needs to do to continue to compete. The Mustang name alone doesn't keep the car in production, innovation and keeping ahead of it's competition does. Look at the Pontiac G8, too little too late for that car but it was arguably even a better track car than a good number of Camaros.
The platform is only part of the car, the suspension and the engine are also vital components. Of course, the suspension has been of most debate as Ford hit a sweet spot with current 5.0L Coyote. The Eco4 is slatted to be another powerhouse of an engine on an even lighter platform.
Lastly, you can't be great without knowing your competition. Ford has more to compete with than just the Camaro/GM and the Challenger/Chrysler now. It's turning itself into a global brand and has to compete with brands like Opel, Renault, and others who are well established and have more compliant platforms/chasis. GM has done it's homework and the MagRide system gets quite the bit of praise in the Camaro ZL1, 1LE, Corvette, CTS/XTS cars. Ford needs a suspension that an compete on a global level as well. Winter is coming.
08-08-2013, 02:25 PM
#20
I must not get it. But why does Ford have to improve handling drastically? The 5.0 is already as good as the current M3. I'd worry about designing a car that could accept wider soft compound tires for the next gen. Mustang! A 285 series is really the best we can get for a 662HP shelby? Just imagine what this beast could do with some real race rubber underneath it like the cup tires on the ZR1. Secondly. How many people actually autocross or road race their Muscle cars apposed to drag racing? I own a 2011 Camaro SS and can say I have been to the drag strip several times. Road racing zero. My Camaro came with IRS and Brembos. Still not interesting in dodging cones in it. I'm not all hot and sweaty over the IRS in the Mustang. Did it really make the Cobras that much better? If Ford builds an exciting, good looking product it will outsell Camaros again. The new Mustang just needs to look the part. Gotta give it to GM they hit a home run with the 5th Gen Camaro's exterior looks.
Last edited by bluebeastsrt; 08-08-2013 at 02:29 PM.