What is it with Ford and crappy shocks?
11-08-2014, 08:35 AM
#11
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: state of confusion
Posts: 7,635
I don't understand why Ford can still not clarify the packages they sell to compete to the highest possible degree with GM products.
They had a chance to rectify all of the negatives with the old platform with the re-design, and we are still hearing the same thing, un-settling movement over uneven pavement, not able to go into and out of corners as fast or with the same confidence as the other car, front heavy design, with the back end breaking loose too easily.
Where are the wider properly off set wheels and sticky tires they could have demanded be made for the car for the"highest performance package????? 305 sticky in rear, 285 in front. Hung out to dry having to go to the after market, and all of it's bull%$#@, because they couldn't redesign a closer to 50%/50% weight ratio, and still not fitting out the performance version of the car to compete with the other guy IMO. Erik
They had a chance to rectify all of the negatives with the old platform with the re-design, and we are still hearing the same thing, un-settling movement over uneven pavement, not able to go into and out of corners as fast or with the same confidence as the other car, front heavy design, with the back end breaking loose too easily.
Where are the wider properly off set wheels and sticky tires they could have demanded be made for the car for the"highest performance package????? 305 sticky in rear, 285 in front. Hung out to dry having to go to the after market, and all of it's bull%$#@, because they couldn't redesign a closer to 50%/50% weight ratio, and still not fitting out the performance version of the car to compete with the other guy IMO. Erik
The 1LE package was about 3 years late to the 5th gen Camaro party, so there's still a little time.
Norm
11-10-2014, 12:37 PM
#14
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NH
Posts: 154
Even the 'mostly' stock street classes in SCCA autocross allow shock swaps because they know the vast majority of vehicles simply aren't sold with really good no-compromise performance shocks. Go to just about any autocross event and you'll see a lot of high performance cars running in street classes with aftermarket shocks. Including BMWs, Porsches, Vettes, etc.
If I were ever to consider buying a Camaro, the 1LE would not be part of the consideration. I'd only consider the least optioned V8 model available. I bought a base Mustang GT cause I knew I'd be replacing most of the suspension anyways.
11-10-2014, 12:52 PM
#15
Gentleman's Relish
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: AZ
Posts: 13,090
I don't understand why Ford can still not clarify the packages they sell to compete to the highest possible degree with GM products.
They had a chance to rectify all of the negatives with the old platform with the re-design, and we are still hearing the same thing, un-settling movement over uneven pavement, not able to go into and out of corners as fast or with the same confidence as the other car, front heavy design, with the back end breaking loose too easily.
Where are the wider properly off set wheels and sticky tires they could have demanded be made for the car for the"highest performance package????? 305 sticky in rear, 285 in front. Hung out to dry having to go to the after market, and all of it's bull%$#@, because they couldn't redesign a closer to 50%/50% weight ratio, and still not fitting out the performance version of the car to compete with the other guy IMO. Erik
They had a chance to rectify all of the negatives with the old platform with the re-design, and we are still hearing the same thing, un-settling movement over uneven pavement, not able to go into and out of corners as fast or with the same confidence as the other car, front heavy design, with the back end breaking loose too easily.
Where are the wider properly off set wheels and sticky tires they could have demanded be made for the car for the"highest performance package????? 305 sticky in rear, 285 in front. Hung out to dry having to go to the after market, and all of it's bull%$#@, because they couldn't redesign a closer to 50%/50% weight ratio, and still not fitting out the performance version of the car to compete with the other guy IMO. Erik
50/50 weight distribution is harder than it sounds. Not even the 2012 vette has that. It took the most current 2015 vette to finally achieve that and that car is a very specific demographic of person (read much lower volume of car). The 2015 Camaro's weight distribution is identical to that of the 2015 mustang.
As for suspension. Unlike GM that uses the tech from Cadillac and the Vette to hand-me-down to the Camaro, the Mustang doesn't have that. Lincoln is adequate at best for tech so we really can't look there for advanced suspension.
11-10-2014, 02:27 PM
#16
Not 100% a dick
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 953
Not everyone drives the same way. The enthusiast driver makes up a very small percentage of the base and the way they (we including myself) would like the car setup would not make most of those non enthusiasts happy. If you want performance, step up to a GT500 or one of the other performance oriented versions of the stang (Shelby, Roush, Saleen, etc). Staggered wheels/tires on a mainstream car is just asking for problems from people (the majority) that don't understand why they can no longer rotate their tires like their Honda.
50/50 weight distribution is harder than it sounds. Not even the 2012 vette has that. It took the most current 2015 vette to finally achieve that and that car is a very specific demographic of person (read much lower volume of car). The 2015 Camaro's weight distribution is identical to that of the 2015 mustang.
As for suspension. Unlike GM that uses the tech from Cadillac and the Vette to hand-me-down to the Camaro, the Mustang doesn't have that. Lincoln is adequate at best for tech so we really can't look there for advanced suspension.
50/50 weight distribution is harder than it sounds. Not even the 2012 vette has that. It took the most current 2015 vette to finally achieve that and that car is a very specific demographic of person (read much lower volume of car). The 2015 Camaro's weight distribution is identical to that of the 2015 mustang.
As for suspension. Unlike GM that uses the tech from Cadillac and the Vette to hand-me-down to the Camaro, the Mustang doesn't have that. Lincoln is adequate at best for tech so we really can't look there for advanced suspension.
11-10-2014, 04:12 PM
#17
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Elgin, OK
Posts: 297
The GT500 is just a power improver. They don't come with better suspension, just a faster motor. Also all mustangs come with the crappy P-zero tires that get compared to cars with better tires from the factory. I feel if they were to put the same tire that the camero had on the mustang it would have had a lot closer if not the same time on the road course as the camero.
11-10-2014, 05:26 PM
#18
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: state of confusion
Posts: 7,635
Not everyone drives the same way. The enthusiast driver makes up a very small percentage of the base and the way they (we including myself) would like the car setup would not make most of those non enthusiasts happy. If you want performance, step up to a GT500 or one of the other performance oriented versions of the stang (Shelby, Roush, Saleen, etc).
Staggered wheels/tires on a mainstream car is just asking for problems from people (the majority) that don't understand why they can no longer rotate their tires like their Honda.
And again, it's not the kind of mod you'd make if the 1LE really is your target.
The way I see it, even the 1LE's wheel 10"/11" width stagger represents taking a little of the edge off of what it could have been . . . or could become. Keep in mind that the more serious Z/28 runs only half an inch difference in front vs rear wheel width.
Norm
11-12-2014, 06:15 PM
#19
You could say that's a strike against the 2015's PP and several of Ford's other offerings over the past few years. Staggered is a straightline performance and appearance mod, at least up to current V8 NA power levels. Not a mod for a cornering/handling/autocross/track day kind of car where the front end is the heavy end.
And again, it's not the kind of mod you'd make if the 1LE really is your target.
The way I see it, even the 1LE's wheel 10"/11" width stagger represents taking a little of the edge off of what it could have been . . . or could become. Keep in mind that the more serious Z/28 runs only half an inch difference in front vs rear wheel width.
Norm
Braking is obviously shifts the weigh forward, and even more so in situation where you are entering a turn with the weight still shifted forward while entering a turn. One of the front wheels is being the most weight in these cases.
As for the Camaro's 1LE package, I stand corrected; they are indeed staggered tire widths instead of all the same width at all four.
Same for the Z/28 trim; I thought it's tires were the same width on all four corners too, but after I looked at the Chevy build & price site, you're right, they are staggered by half an inch width.
11-12-2014, 07:53 PM
#20
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: state of confusion
Posts: 7,635
The front and rear tire sizes for the 1LE are the same; it's only the wheel widths that are staggered. Same thing with the Z/28, just that the width numbers are all a little bigger. Sounds like slip angle management for maintaining a little limit understeer without blatantly throwing away front grip to get it.
It's in the ZL1 that staggers exist in both the wheel widths and the tire sizes.
Norm
It's in the ZL1 that staggers exist in both the wheel widths and the tire sizes.
Norm
Last edited by Norm Peterson; 11-12-2014 at 07:55 PM.
