Whining noise
09-03-2011, 02:45 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Concord, California
Posts: 39
Whining noise
First off, the car:
1998 3.8 V-6, T-5 manual. No mods that I am aware of. Car has 125,xxx miles, engine is running well.
The problem:
I cannot find the source of a noise that is driving me insane, because I know it is probably a bearing somewhere, but I cannot even seem to pinpoint the component, let alone which bearing.
So, the symptoms:
The car is making an awful whining noise.
Gets louder with speed, but not with RPM.
Does it in all gears, but again, is loudest at higher speeds, only slightly noticeable in 1st.
Very soft whining noise in neutral (this might be tire hum though, they are cheapos that the previous owner put on).
Does not matter whether clutch is pressed in or not, noise is present.
Most noticeable on deceleration, and is not constant on deceleration, but is more like a series of sharp whines, about 2 per second, with a constant hum type whine.
Hum is constant, whether accelerating, decelerating, or keeping a constant speed. Just gets louder as speed increases.
Car shifts fine, drives fine, clutch feels fine, no noise associated with pushing in the clutch. Goes in gear easily, stays in gear, and shifts without incident or noise.
I have changed both tranny and diff fluid, changed rear axle bearings and seals. Both fluids looked good, no chunks or even really any metal material whatsoever.
So, my reasoning seems to indicate a few things, and please chime in with suggestions!
My ideas are
1. Tranny is failing, more likely to be gears not connected to input shaft. (Reasoning is that RPM does not matter with whine, seems to be speed related). However, no metal shavings or pieces came out with tranny fluid.
2. Diff is failing. (perhaps carrier or pinon bearing?) Gear faces all looked OK when I had the cover off changing the axle bearings.
3. Perhaps a bent axle? I thought I would have noticed this when changing the axle bearings, but I guess I didnt look them over that closely. I don't remember any wear on the axle where it contacts the bearing.
I was leaning towards the tranny being my failure, because the noise seems to go away when in neutral, which would seem to eliminate the rear-end as a problem, but I put the car on jack-stands, just for s**ts and gigs, and started and ran it for a few minutes. I had my wife actually take off in 3rd (I know, dont do this at home, I didnt get under the car, just walked around it) and had her go til the speedo read 45, where I could hear the noise. It sounded more like it was coming from the rear driver's wheel. Strange to me, I changed the bearing and seals about a month ago.
So, I have delayed my parts run until I get another opinion on what this noise is and where it is coming from. Any help would be appreciated!
1998 3.8 V-6, T-5 manual. No mods that I am aware of. Car has 125,xxx miles, engine is running well.
The problem:
I cannot find the source of a noise that is driving me insane, because I know it is probably a bearing somewhere, but I cannot even seem to pinpoint the component, let alone which bearing.
So, the symptoms:
The car is making an awful whining noise.
Gets louder with speed, but not with RPM.
Does it in all gears, but again, is loudest at higher speeds, only slightly noticeable in 1st.
Very soft whining noise in neutral (this might be tire hum though, they are cheapos that the previous owner put on).
Does not matter whether clutch is pressed in or not, noise is present.
Most noticeable on deceleration, and is not constant on deceleration, but is more like a series of sharp whines, about 2 per second, with a constant hum type whine.
Hum is constant, whether accelerating, decelerating, or keeping a constant speed. Just gets louder as speed increases.
Car shifts fine, drives fine, clutch feels fine, no noise associated with pushing in the clutch. Goes in gear easily, stays in gear, and shifts without incident or noise.
I have changed both tranny and diff fluid, changed rear axle bearings and seals. Both fluids looked good, no chunks or even really any metal material whatsoever.
So, my reasoning seems to indicate a few things, and please chime in with suggestions!
My ideas are
1. Tranny is failing, more likely to be gears not connected to input shaft. (Reasoning is that RPM does not matter with whine, seems to be speed related). However, no metal shavings or pieces came out with tranny fluid.
2. Diff is failing. (perhaps carrier or pinon bearing?) Gear faces all looked OK when I had the cover off changing the axle bearings.
3. Perhaps a bent axle? I thought I would have noticed this when changing the axle bearings, but I guess I didnt look them over that closely. I don't remember any wear on the axle where it contacts the bearing.
I was leaning towards the tranny being my failure, because the noise seems to go away when in neutral, which would seem to eliminate the rear-end as a problem, but I put the car on jack-stands, just for s**ts and gigs, and started and ran it for a few minutes. I had my wife actually take off in 3rd (I know, dont do this at home, I didnt get under the car, just walked around it) and had her go til the speedo read 45, where I could hear the noise. It sounded more like it was coming from the rear driver's wheel. Strange to me, I changed the bearing and seals about a month ago.
So, I have delayed my parts run until I get another opinion on what this noise is and where it is coming from. Any help would be appreciated!
09-03-2011, 07:41 PM
#3
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: CA
Posts: 1,670
I'm leaning towards a bad wheel bearing, especially since it gets louder with speed. Do you have an idea on where the sound is coming from (which corner? front or back?)? Maybe take the car out to an empty & quiet parking lot and drive around a little. Have a buddy outside the vehicle to see if he can hear it better and pinpoint where it is coming from.
09-03-2011, 08:57 PM
#4
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Panhandle
Posts: 6
I just had this prob with mine, same car but a 2000. It ended up being the preload on the pinion gear. If you had your carrier apart recently and didn't get the preload and backlash set in tolerance when you slapped it all back together, she'll howl like a pornstar.
09-03-2011, 10:52 PM
#5
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Concord, California
Posts: 39
I'm leaning towards a bad wheel bearing, especially since it gets louder with speed. Do you have an idea on where the sound is coming from (which corner? front or back?)? Maybe take the car out to an empty & quiet parking lot and drive around a little. Have a buddy outside the vehicle to see if he can hear it better and pinpoint where it is coming from.
Made the noise before that, and still makes it now. Seems to be getting louder, but it might be my paranoia about it.
I have a feeling it is in the tranny, and thus I pulled it and have it sitting in my garage next to the car, still on jackstands. Pick n pull is having a half off sale this weekend... So I think I am going to go buy a tranny and a rear (hopefully they have a 8.8) and hopefully the problem goes away.
Thanks for the input, all ideas help!
09-03-2011, 10:59 PM
#6
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Concord, California
Posts: 39
I just had this prob with mine, same car but a 2000. It ended up being the preload on the pinion gear. If you had your carrier apart recently and didn't get the preload and backlash set in tolerance when you slapped it all back together, she'll howl like a pornstar.
Thanks for the input, it is appreciated. Like I posted above, I am going to the junkyard for a tranny and rear tomorrow morning. If all goes well, between the two, the noise goes away. If not, I am officially out of ideas!
09-06-2011, 03:56 AM
#8
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Concord, California
Posts: 39
While I was pulling the caliper off the rear driver side, I also noticed a bit of play in the axle. In and out play, and seemingly more than what would be normal. So, being inquisitive, I pulled the diff cover and started wiggling things around. The ring gear literally moved 1/8th of an inch in any direction I pushed it. So, I dug deeper and pulled the whole carrier out, and found that the bearings on the carrier (both sides) were scarred and worn. I assume that the bulk of my noise is coming from those 2 hours bearings, so I spent the next hour trying to get them off the carrier... I got the cages broken, and that's about it.
Taking it to a shop tomorrow and having them pressed off, and then new ones pressed back on. Thanks for the suggestion, if you hadn't mentioned the brakes, I wouldn't have wiggled the axle!
09-06-2011, 03:59 AM
#9
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Concord, California
Posts: 39
I assume that the bulk of my noise is coming from those bearings, so I spent the next 2 hours trying to get them off the carrier... I got the cages broken, and that's about it
09-06-2011, 11:53 PM
#10
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Concord, California
Posts: 39
Just thinking about this, looking to reassemble tomorrow afternoon. Got the new bearings pressed on, and wondering about shims now... I kept the shims from each side separate... and the clamps, and everything else... So, if I put the carrier back in there, and put the shims on the respective sides they came from, and didnt change anything else, it should be close enough to the way it came apart, right? The bearings are the same exact model bearing from the same company, so they should have the exact specs. The shims do not appear to be worn, and they have no movement themselves, so there shouldnt be any wear anyway, right?
Also, can the pinion bearings be bad if there is absoltely no movement in any direction? It feels solid as a rock in the housing, and the gear itself looks like new. No in/out, up/down, left/right movement at all if I try to wiggle it. Am I wrong in thinking that I don't really need to worry about replacing those bearings?
Also, can the pinion bearings be bad if there is absoltely no movement in any direction? It feels solid as a rock in the housing, and the gear itself looks like new. No in/out, up/down, left/right movement at all if I try to wiggle it. Am I wrong in thinking that I don't really need to worry about replacing those bearings?