magician0227

Just a quick, short (as possible) history of my "project" here.

I bought my son a 1997 V6 Mustang, with a blown head gasket. We were on a "near zero" budget at the time, so I used some Amazon points I had to get a FelPro gasket set, and we tore the engine down to replace the gaskets.

I opted to not send the heads to a machine shop (zero budget), and instead spent many long hours blocking them by hand. I got the car reassembled, and the gaskets held perfectly. What didn't hold was a dang intake valve. I actually knew the valve was bad, having failed a ghetto solvent leak test on the bench. I take full responsibility for just simply forgetting to come back to it, and get it right before installation.

I actually grabbed a $300 beater off craigslist for him to drive while I waited for a little more funds to open up to get the Mustang going for him. We sacrificed and saved, and (again), I made a pretty crucial mistake. I purchased a 1995 complete running car, intending on swapping the motors. I should have done more research. I now have learned there are significant differences between the 95 and 97 V6's. SO that leads me to where I am now.

Again, I have saved a little cash, but again, not quite enough to "do it right" (full rebuild), but enough to have some options. But I am torn between what seems to be the "lesser of two evils" here.

I am sending the heads to a machine shop this time. My biggest question is which engine to use.

From what I have researched, the 95 block is weaker than the 97, and has the issue with the head bolt holes not being deep enough. So I would like to use the 97.

My first concern is that I was able to do a leak down test on the 95 before disassembly, and all 6 cylinders seemed tight. (consistent <10% leakage, all through the rings), so I am somewhat confident about the 95 shortblock. I did however find that one cylinder was pretty rough in the walls, and there was a significant "lip" of carbon at the top of all of them.

The 97 was already tore down, so doing any testing was out of the question. All I have to go by on it is that it ran, actually quite well, even with the bad intake valve. Visually, the 97 cylinder walls look good. No scoring, and the hatching is still visible in most places.

My biggest concern with the 97 (beyond being untested) is that it was very heavily sludged when I tore it down. I scrubbed the hell out of the top end, and now that I have access to the bottom end, its not as bad as I would have expected. No real sludge down there, just some varnish, and some burnt oil in places.

Again, what I don't have is the cash to completely rebuild the bottom end. What I do have is time, a nice warm shop, and tools. I am just looking for suggestions on what I should do with the engine on the stand.

Bearings. Everything "feels" good, no obvious loose rods. But is it worth it to replace them while I can, without having the crank machined? I have found several sites that say no, and several that say if everything looks ok, go for it.

Honing. Is it worth it to pull the pistons, and lightly hone the cylinder walls? This is something I have never done, but it seems simple enough. A quick pass with a ball hone in each cylinder. (again, they look pretty good, considering)

Pick up tube. Knowing that this engine was a sludge beast, should I replace the pickup, even though it looks clean? I was expecting this to be a no-brainer, after seeing the top half, but its actually (visually) clean as can be.

Anything else? Not sure if I should be worried about the timing chain, water pump, and main seals. Nothing leads me to believe they "need" replacing, but it would be worlds easier now rather than later.

And lastly (and I know this is going to be a dogfight), the head gaskets. They have been installed, and torqued. but they have been run very, very little. The car has been heat cycled maybe 5 times total, and has been driven only about a mile. They came off as clean as they were when they were new. This is kinda a big one, as these gaskets are not cheap by any means ($100 minimum, $170 if I get the full set)

I have found several sites that say the PermaTorque gaskets are fine to reuse if the coating is clean, and they have under 500 miles on them. Others just flat out say "no, NEVER, reuse a head gasket.

My plan, as it stands, is to have the heads machined, valves done (replacing as necessary), and reuse the gaskets. I have a couple hundred extra dollars I can throw at the car. Not enough for a proper rebuild, obviously. What would you suggest the best use for that money would be?

warthogdriver

i swapped in a 99 3.8 into my 95 when the heads went.
i did what i call a poor man rebuild, upper only. there is an argument to tear it down and one to do top end. i had a budget, and honestly i built a daily driver not a track car.
i did everything i could, timing chain, waterpump, rear main seal and so on...nothing major. i had the heads machined and checked. everything else was just gaskets and bolts. its a roll of the dice really. as far as cost check rockauto.com, saved me a ton of cash.
example

FEL-PRO Part # 9263PT PermaTorqueMLS®
Right; Head bolts not incl; Head bolt replacement required; PermaTorqueMLS®
Part Image
$50.79

i was able to do a bit more because of the savings...give them a look. if you save some cash you may be able to go more in depth.

i know that probably doesnt help you much, but thats what i did in my situation, which seems similar.

good luck
hope your son knows how lucky he is that your helping out like this.

LilRoush

Both blocks are the same for 'strength'. The major issue with the earlier motors was weak head gaskets in '94 and mid way into '95.

Personally, I'd clean up the motor you have apart ('97) and put it back together. Replace the 'cheap' and hard to get to seals/gaskets while it's out.

magician0227

I think he does, hes a pretty good kid. And honestly, this is probably more for me, than for him. He's 18 now, and I know the projects like this will eventually take a backseat to his future and family.

According to this article, there were differences in the main caps and support at the bottom of the bore. Granted, we are going full stock here, so neither of those would likely be an issue. The head bolt holes though, were petty much a deal breaker for me.

I am doing the oil pan gasket for sure. I have been contemplating the rear mail seal. Right now, its not showing any signs of leaking, but now is the time. I am a little scared of breaking something that isn't already broke with it though. I have had bad experiences in the past with trying to replace press in seals without the proper tools.

I am still just torn over reusing the head gaskets. Its like the devil on one shoulder, and an angel on the other. For every article I find that says "NO!", I can find one that says they have reused Permatorque MLS gaskets as much as a dozen times.

The big thing I seem to be noticing is, none of the "NO!" guys are offering real life experiences, just "You should NEVER reuse head gaskets" comments. Whereas the ones thay say "Do it" are all offering experiences.

I know I am going to be livid if it blows, but even getting the gaskets through Rock Auto without the full set, its still over $100....and I just "spent" $170 on them a month ago.

I am pretty sure I am going to skip honing the cylinders. that just seems like opening Pandora's Box to me. I don't have access to quality machinist tools, so I have no way of checking the bore, and if they were bad, that just means new rings at the least, new pistons at the worst, and hundreds more in machining.

The bearings are kinda my sticking point right now. I have found enough info to convince me that replacing rod bearings without machining is not such a bad thing. I am going to pop a cap off tonight and see what they look like. If i see any copper, then Ill replace them all, if not, I will leave well enough alone.

Going to go ahead pull the pickup tube out and just soak it for good measure.

Not going to worry about the timing chain or water pump right now. Those are easy enough to get to if needed in the future.

thanks for the replies...

Daehawk

Hell just reuse the gaskets. If they blow then spend for new ones. No point unless it does right?