X-Charger and boost questions
01-05-2007, 07:23 PM
#11
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Posts: 166
RE: X-Charger and boost questions
ORIGINAL: 8cd03gro
heat soak is after running the engine hard...or actually just running it, the IAT's go up because the air under the hood gets real hot and such. This can start to drain power over time and with a boosted application, high IAT's (intake air temperatures) are dangerous as it can cause knocking/detonation. knocking on an n/a motor isn't good but it isn't instant death to the motor. on a forced induction engine it can get REAL bad. More boost=more heat and an intercooler cools the charge air or pressurized air. Cooling the air like this can drop the temperatures alot and keep it safe. It will actually add power too because when the air is cold it is more compressed (denser) so when it is ignited with the fuel, it expands more which creates more power. without one most of the time, you don't want to run much boost usually over like 6-7psi, but somehow (i have yet to udnerstand it) a few xcharger owners were running 9-10 psi pulleys without any form of cooling [&:]. Now i think Nav is using meth injection, but afixer, aren't you running a 2.8? isn't that like 10 psi on an m90....you aren't running any kind of injection are you?
ORIGINAL: Ronaele05
ok im dumb, what do you mean by heat soak?
ok im dumb, what do you mean by heat soak?
Ocd03gro]
you don't want to run much boost usually over like 6-7psi, but somehow (i have yet to udnerstand it) a few xcharger owners were running 9-10 psi pulleys without any form of cooling . Now i think Nav is using meth injection, but afixer, aren't you running a 2.8? isn't that like 10 psi on an m90....you aren't running any kind of injection are you?
you don't want to run much boost usually over like 6-7psi, but somehow (i have yet to udnerstand it) a few xcharger owners were running 9-10 psi pulleys without any form of cooling . Now i think Nav is using meth injection, but afixer, aren't you running a 2.8? isn't that like 10 psi on an m90....you aren't running any kind of injection are you?
The IAT (incomig air temps)running the 9psi pulley (2.80) with the water injection which acts as an intercooler is around 115-130 (low temps) which is VERY good imo. Even without the water injection the temps are safe running the 2.80 pulley according to Doug (ASE Ford tech) who tune and tested the X Charger, imo I would run the water injection if I had the X running the 2.80 pulley but would feel safe running it witout water injection according to Doug testing and report if I had to..
Ocd03gro question for you, do you know what the IAT on a 10 psi turbo w/intercooler model like the PH sells for our Mustangs run???
I think you might be surprised!
For the record Nav is not running meth or water injectionand affixer I believe is now running the 3.00 pulley nowbut was running the 2.80 without water injection.
Also Doug said in a manual running the 2.80 pulley with the water injection would pull over 300rwhp and 310rwtq.
http://www.superchargersonline.com/content.asp?ID=16
In general we would not recommend intercoolers on supercharged engines with less than 8-9psi of boost,
http://www.machperformanceparts.com/...rchargers.html
The cooler air provides a denser air charge which can make added horsepower, especially under higher boost conditions. Intercoolers and aftercoolers, while popular for racing applications, are not normally needed for street drivers running 6 to 9 psi of boost.
01-05-2007, 10:40 PM
#12
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location:
Posts: 740
RE: X-Charger and boost questions
yeah they pretty much hit the nail on the head...
torch i was wondering the same thing about if he knows x is a brand LOL
The only thing i think you really have to worry about with the x charger is that the engine will probably take a little more abuse than the other power adders, simply because the boost comes in so early...centrifugal and turbos reach boost with a more rpms than the X, which means it is easier to stay outa the boost, thats one of the good things about a super or turbo charger, if you stay low in the rpm's your barely running any boost....but the X produces it LOW (which is GREAT for seat of the pants!) but it also means its harder to stay outa of the boost in normal driving situations...
Those are my thoughts on the subject!
Oh and Bscottie(Kuik6er) is the only one i know of running the HIPO and Water/Meth injection
torch i was wondering the same thing about if he knows x is a brand LOL
The only thing i think you really have to worry about with the x charger is that the engine will probably take a little more abuse than the other power adders, simply because the boost comes in so early...centrifugal and turbos reach boost with a more rpms than the X, which means it is easier to stay outa the boost, thats one of the good things about a super or turbo charger, if you stay low in the rpm's your barely running any boost....but the X produces it LOW (which is GREAT for seat of the pants!) but it also means its harder to stay outa of the boost in normal driving situations...
Those are my thoughts on the subject!
Oh and Bscottie(Kuik6er) is the only one i know of running the HIPO and Water/Meth injection
01-05-2007, 11:13 PM
#13
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location:
Posts: 166
RE: X-Charger and boost questions
ORIGINAL: sonicblue05
The only thing i think you really have to worry about with the x charger is that the engine will probably take a little more abuse than the other power adders, simply because the boost comes in so early...centrifugal and turbos reach boost with a more rpms than the X, which means it is easier to stay outa the boost, thats one of the good things about a super or turbo charger, if you stay low in the rpm's your barely running any boost....but the X produces it LOW (which is GREAT for seat of the pants!) but it also means its harder to stay outa of the boost in normal driving situations...
Those are my thoughts on the subject!
Oh and Bscottie(Kuik6er) is the only one i know of running the HIPO and Water/Meth injection
The only thing i think you really have to worry about with the x charger is that the engine will probably take a little more abuse than the other power adders, simply because the boost comes in so early...centrifugal and turbos reach boost with a more rpms than the X, which means it is easier to stay outa the boost, thats one of the good things about a super or turbo charger, if you stay low in the rpm's your barely running any boost....but the X produces it LOW (which is GREAT for seat of the pants!) but it also means its harder to stay outa of the boost in normal driving situations...
Those are my thoughts on the subject!
Oh and Bscottie(Kuik6er) is the only one i know of running the HIPO and Water/Meth injection
The turbo starts making boostbuildsfull boost by 3K rpm and the centri starts making boost at 3-3.5k rpm so in both cases with you motor will be under boost when youhit and exceedthose rpms everytime.
On the other hand unlike the above examples with the X Charger you can hit those rpms and higher and not be under boost (bypassvalve)normal drivingas long as you are not hard into the gas. So the abuse as you say in your above post you will have morewith the X charger than the otherabove FI systems per your example is not correct.
01-05-2007, 11:23 PM
#14
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location:
Posts: 740
RE: X-Charger and boost questions
The bypass valve only opens on " cruise, deceleration, idle and coast" (per EE website)...so anytime your accelerating you will be under boost....no matter the throttle...
BUT im sure this will help greatly with wear and tear making it comparable with the other systems...
Overall this is a great system and IMO one of the best (behind turbo) and the best for the money...if only it could be fitted with an intercooler it would be the best system on the market
BUT im sure this will help greatly with wear and tear making it comparable with the other systems...
Overall this is a great system and IMO one of the best (behind turbo) and the best for the money...if only it could be fitted with an intercooler it would be the best system on the market
01-05-2007, 11:30 PM
#15
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location:
Posts: 166
RE: X-Charger and boost questions
ORIGINAL: sonicblue05
The bypass valve only opens on " cruise, deceleration, idle and coast" (per EE website)...so anytime your accelerating you will be under boost....no matter the throttle...
BUT im sure this will help greatly with wear and tear making it comparable with the other systems...
Overall this is a great system and IMO one of the best (behind turbo) and the best for the money...if only it could be fitted with an intercooler it would be the best system on the market
The bypass valve only opens on " cruise, deceleration, idle and coast" (per EE website)...so anytime your accelerating you will be under boost....no matter the throttle...
BUT im sure this will help greatly with wear and tear making it comparable with the other systems...
Overall this is a great system and IMO one of the best (behind turbo) and the best for the money...if only it could be fitted with an intercooler it would be the best system on the market
01-05-2007, 11:31 PM
#16
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,172
RE: X-Charger and boost questions
ORIGINAL: Krazer
That is not correct let me explain the X Charger has a built in bypass valve which means you can drive around without boost until you hit the gas pedal hard so you could drive around and not be under boost . Its only when youhitthe gas pedal hardthat boost will come due to the bypass valve.
The turbo starts making boostbuildsfull boost by 3K rpm and the centri starts making boost at 3-3.5k rpm so in both cases with you motor will be under boost when youhit and exceedthose rpms everytime.
On the other hand unlike the above examples with the X Charger you can hit those rpms and higher and not be under boost (bypassvalve)normal drivingas long as you are not hard into the gas. So the abuse as you say in your above post you will have morewith the X charger than the otherabove FI systems per your example is not correct.
ORIGINAL: sonicblue05
The only thing i think you really have to worry about with the x charger is that the engine will probably take a little more abuse than the other power adders, simply because the boost comes in so early...centrifugal and turbos reach boost with a more rpms than the X, which means it is easier to stay outa the boost, thats one of the good things about a super or turbo charger, if you stay low in the rpm's your barely running any boost....but the X produces it LOW (which is GREAT for seat of the pants!) but it also means its harder to stay outa of the boost in normal driving situations...
Those are my thoughts on the subject!
Oh and Bscottie(Kuik6er) is the only one i know of running the HIPO and Water/Meth injection
The only thing i think you really have to worry about with the x charger is that the engine will probably take a little more abuse than the other power adders, simply because the boost comes in so early...centrifugal and turbos reach boost with a more rpms than the X, which means it is easier to stay outa the boost, thats one of the good things about a super or turbo charger, if you stay low in the rpm's your barely running any boost....but the X produces it LOW (which is GREAT for seat of the pants!) but it also means its harder to stay outa of the boost in normal driving situations...
Those are my thoughts on the subject!
Oh and Bscottie(Kuik6er) is the only one i know of running the HIPO and Water/Meth injection
The turbo starts making boostbuildsfull boost by 3K rpm and the centri starts making boost at 3-3.5k rpm so in both cases with you motor will be under boost when youhit and exceedthose rpms everytime.
On the other hand unlike the above examples with the X Charger you can hit those rpms and higher and not be under boost (bypassvalve)normal drivingas long as you are not hard into the gas. So the abuse as you say in your above post you will have morewith the X charger than the otherabove FI systems per your example is not correct.
01-05-2007, 11:43 PM
#17
1st Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location:
Posts: 121
RE: X-Charger and boost questions
only problem if i was to get any of the set-ups mentioned here i would always be "in the boost" my driving style is as we say "spirited" or "bat out of hell". Get what i mean. Not a big deal if engine breaks on me by 80K miles, im at 19k already. I mean it is a big deal but i don't think the car will last me that long anyways. Maybe 100k miles till i upgrade and put her in the garage for a new school resto-mod.
01-05-2007, 11:48 PM
#18
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location:
Posts: 166
RE: X-Charger and boost questions
ORIGINAL: rygenstormlocke
Yep, I've driven the x, centri (pro charger) and the turbo. And regardless of which one you buy, YOU CAN drive under boost if you want to. On the turbo comparing it to the X for off the line performance, there is about a 500 rpm difference. The X builds around 200ish rwtq at 2000 rpm and the turbo builds around 220ish rwtq around 2500 rpm.
ORIGINAL: Krazer
That is not correct let me explain the X Charger has a built in bypass valve which means you can drive around without boost until you hit the gas pedal hard so you could drive around and not be under boost . Its only when youhitthe gas pedal hardthat boost will come due to the bypass valve.
The turbo starts making boostbuildsfull boost by 3K rpm and the centri starts making boost at 3-3.5k rpm so in both cases with you motor will be under boost when youhit and exceedthose rpms everytime.
On the other hand unlike the above examples with the X Charger you can hit those rpms and higher and not be under boost (bypassvalve)normal drivingas long as you are not hard into the gas. So the abuse as you say in your above post you will have morewith the X charger than the otherabove FI systems per your example is not correct.
ORIGINAL: sonicblue05
The only thing i think you really have to worry about with the x charger is that the engine will probably take a little more abuse than the other power adders, simply because the boost comes in so early...centrifugal and turbos reach boost with a more rpms than the X, which means it is easier to stay outa the boost, thats one of the good things about a super or turbo charger, if you stay low in the rpm's your barely running any boost....but the X produces it LOW (which is GREAT for seat of the pants!) but it also means its harder to stay outa of the boost in normal driving situations...
Those are my thoughts on the subject!
Oh and Bscottie(Kuik6er) is the only one i know of running the HIPO and Water/Meth injection
The only thing i think you really have to worry about with the x charger is that the engine will probably take a little more abuse than the other power adders, simply because the boost comes in so early...centrifugal and turbos reach boost with a more rpms than the X, which means it is easier to stay outa the boost, thats one of the good things about a super or turbo charger, if you stay low in the rpm's your barely running any boost....but the X produces it LOW (which is GREAT for seat of the pants!) but it also means its harder to stay outa of the boost in normal driving situations...
Those are my thoughts on the subject!
Oh and Bscottie(Kuik6er) is the only one i know of running the HIPO and Water/Meth injection
The turbo starts making boostbuildsfull boost by 3K rpm and the centri starts making boost at 3-3.5k rpm so in both cases with you motor will be under boost when youhit and exceedthose rpms everytime.
On the other hand unlike the above examples with the X Charger you can hit those rpms and higher and not be under boost (bypassvalve)normal drivingas long as you are not hard into the gas. So the abuse as you say in your above post you will have morewith the X charger than the otherabove FI systems per your example is not correct.
That was one of the points I was trying to make to sonnic05.
To any X Charger guys please post if I am wrong.
01-06-2007, 12:00 AM
#20
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,172
RE: X-Charger and boost questions
ORIGINAL: Krazer
rygenstormlocke but ulike the turbo and centri you can drive the X Charger and accelerateand let the car wind up past 2500-3000 rpms(past 2500-3000 rpm your under boostwith the turbo)and higher under no boostas long as you are not hard into the pedal (bypassvalve)with the turbo or centri when you hit those rpms you are under boost. You have to really drive the carmake sure to stay under the turbo and centri rpm boost limit but with the X Charger you don't you can exceed those rpms let the car wind out a little andand not be under boost under light accelerating..
That was one of the points I was trying to make to sonnic05.
To any X Charger guys please post if I am wrong.
ORIGINAL: rygenstormlocke
Yep, I've driven the x, centri (pro charger) and the turbo. And regardless of which one you buy, YOU CAN drive under boost if you want to. On the turbo comparing it to the X for off the line performance, there is about a 500 rpm difference. The X builds around 200ish rwtq at 2000 rpm and the turbo builds around 220ish rwtq around 2500 rpm.
ORIGINAL: Krazer
That is not correct let me explain the X Charger has a built in bypass valve which means you can drive around without boost until you hit the gas pedal hard so you could drive around and not be under boost . Its only when youhitthe gas pedal hardthat boost will come due to the bypass valve.
The turbo starts making boostbuildsfull boost by 3K rpm and the centri starts making boost at 3-3.5k rpm so in both cases with you motor will be under boost when youhit and exceedthose rpms everytime.
On the other hand unlike the above examples with the X Charger you can hit those rpms and higher and not be under boost (bypassvalve)normal drivingas long as you are not hard into the gas. So the abuse as you say in your above post you will have morewith the X charger than the otherabove FI systems per your example is not correct.
ORIGINAL: sonicblue05
The only thing i think you really have to worry about with the x charger is that the engine will probably take a little more abuse than the other power adders, simply because the boost comes in so early...centrifugal and turbos reach boost with a more rpms than the X, which means it is easier to stay outa the boost, thats one of the good things about a super or turbo charger, if you stay low in the rpm's your barely running any boost....but the X produces it LOW (which is GREAT for seat of the pants!) but it also means its harder to stay outa of the boost in normal driving situations...
Those are my thoughts on the subject!
Oh and Bscottie(Kuik6er) is the only one i know of running the HIPO and Water/Meth injection
The only thing i think you really have to worry about with the x charger is that the engine will probably take a little more abuse than the other power adders, simply because the boost comes in so early...centrifugal and turbos reach boost with a more rpms than the X, which means it is easier to stay outa the boost, thats one of the good things about a super or turbo charger, if you stay low in the rpm's your barely running any boost....but the X produces it LOW (which is GREAT for seat of the pants!) but it also means its harder to stay outa of the boost in normal driving situations...
Those are my thoughts on the subject!
Oh and Bscottie(Kuik6er) is the only one i know of running the HIPO and Water/Meth injection
The turbo starts making boostbuildsfull boost by 3K rpm and the centri starts making boost at 3-3.5k rpm so in both cases with you motor will be under boost when youhit and exceedthose rpms everytime.
On the other hand unlike the above examples with the X Charger you can hit those rpms and higher and not be under boost (bypassvalve)normal drivingas long as you are not hard into the gas. So the abuse as you say in your above post you will have morewith the X charger than the otherabove FI systems per your example is not correct.
That was one of the points I was trying to make to sonnic05.
To any X Charger guys please post if I am wrong.