SD_LX_5.0

I know the Windsor is more popular and Im assuming newer, but what are the differences?

HACKGT350

windsors are easier to come across than the clevlands but i think the clevlands are stronger than the W and the W are newer dont take my word for the cleavlands being stronger though im not sure

WizardBlack

I don't know if you can say that or not. Clevelands are considered a big block whereas 351 windsors are really still a small block. Clevelands can be punched out a lot more, IIRC, but like they said, they are hard to come by, very heavy and the mod availability is somewhat lower.

HACKGT350

yeah but when you do mod them they are some of the sickest engines to come across

myshifter

there are a ton of differences, shall I start the laundry list of differences

FoRdBoY357

Windsors are the exact same (save for deck height) as the 289/302s. The only similarity between the windsor and cleveland are the bore size (4.00 in).

The coolest thing about clevelands is the heads. they have MASSIVE intake valves (~2.23 in) and MASSIVE exhaust valves. The actual intake ports are as big as a 460's (2.50 in). The blocks themselves are super heavy duty with 4-bolt mains and very thick wall castings, the downside is immense weight. whoever said the 351 cleveland is a big block is wrong, it is still a small block (the heads even interchange with the 302/351). put those heads on a mexican block 302 and, voila!, a 2-bolt main BOSS 302! (my next project)

the cleveland shares the same bellhousing bolt pattern as the 385-series (429/460), that could be your misunderstanding whoever you are.

myshifter

Bore spacing is the same on W's and C's and the cleveland blocks are absolutely terrible, they are not thick castings, they are very thin and after 30 thou over they are junk. Core shift is horrible. The C was fords experiment with thin wall casting and it proved a disaster. The 2 bolt and 4 bolt C blocks are nearly identical in strength. The only C block worth considering is the mighty rare XE block. The 4V head needs a ton of rpm to work (8-9k) There is rumors of an aftermarket C block with all the needed improvements over a stock block. If an aftermarket block hits the street, then it would be worthy of consideration over building a windsor. The only proper way to get a C to live at RPM is bush all 16 lifter bores to control oiling. And there are very FEW places setup to do that in the country. I raced C's for over a decade and have a garage full of parts, my motto after 10 years turning 9000+ rpm with a C was "Been there Broke that" [:@]

SuperHoss

The 351W is older than the 351C, but the Windsor is roughly the same age as the BOSS 302. An aftermarket 351C block is being made (the name of the company escapes me). It is a stock style block, which means that the thin casting is still there, but the metals are much better now as oppose to 30 years ago.

The Modified series uses the 429/460 bellhousing, not the Cleveland.

The Cleveland is technically a small block, but because of the heads it is often refered to as a "mid-block"(small-block bottom and big block style heads).

THUMPIN455

Wow.. someone finally got it right.


Also the bore spacing is the same for 289/302/351W/351C/351M, so the heads will all physically bolt on. There are coolant passage differences, and the piston crowns are different beween the C/M and the W engnes.

Please tell ALL your friends that the 351C and 351M are NOT big blocks. They are small blocks. the M happens to share the 429/460 bellhousing pattern, but that doesnt make it a big block.

As for whats better, that is mainly what you have, can find, or will fit in the chassis you are gonna run. All of them will run pretty well with the right parts. But the W is much more plentiful since it was built from 69 into the late 80s early 90s. the Cleveland was only built from 70-74.

the BOSS 302 used small chamber 351C 4V heads, so if the valves in your BOSS 302 are all in the same line, and it has tiny little ports, you dont have a BOSS 302. you would then have a 302.

pdmustgt

As someone else posted they are not big-blocks. I always have someone telling me they are bigblocks they are wide like one and that the 351m 400 use 429/460 bell housing. If that the case the engine in my 04 mach1 is a bigblock because its wider than the 429/460 and it's R code. I read you can punch out 351c alot oh really have fun hitting water jacket. I had one at .060 they are not not thick after that theres about .100 wall thickens left depending on core shift they flex more.

For info the 351w deck height is taller than the 302 and oil pan rails are wider too and mains are 3 inch. You can take 351m or 400 crank it will go in the 351w block. Just got to machine off the step on the front of the crank for the timing gear. 351w came out in 69 351c in 70, but according to my dad some 69 mustangs had 351c in them the late 69 mustangs. Dad worked at ford dealership back then as a mechanic.