Birdieman4

Every method of tuning will have its good and bad points. Different methods can get you the same results. I am reporting from experience, I have used chips, and I have used MAF tuners. Because I have experience with both, I can tell ya firsthand my opinion with both. There are a lot of bonuses to using a MAF tuner, timing adjuster, and digital wideband. The digital wideband is huge in itself. It gives you a way to see how lean(or rich)
your car is running at ANY given time. You think your fuel pump is failing? -Look at the wideband. You think because its 105 outside you might be running lean? -Look at the wideband. You wanna go to the track and run high octane racing gas? No problem, make the tune adjustments and confirm the tune with the wideband. The system I have described is more user friendly than a chip, and gives the user options that don't exist with a pre-burned chip. Please don't misunderstand me. *I'm not knocking using a chip or that system at all. -All I'm saying is that I have used both systems, and I think the MAF tuner with the timing adjuster and the wideband is a better system, in not all, but most situations.
My whole basic original point was that a dyno is NOT the ONLY way to get a perfect A/F ratio.

2000GT4.6

It is however, the only way to get the most out of your car. Im sorry, but there is no possible way you can get anywhere close to max hp without a dyno, with either chip or any other setup. If you prefer to get a timing adj etc you should still spend the 50-100 bucks to go do a few dyno pulls and play with it. No human being can jump in a car, and tell a 10 or 15 RWHP difference for 100 percent sure. Its all realtive.

To the guy that started this thread: At this time there is no reason you should get either of these setups, you havent done enough to the car to really throw off your a/f. Wait until you get to a good stopping point (aka full boltons, the pi swap, boost etc) and then tune it one way or another.

Wings65288

both ways sound really good, i think if i knew how to do it birdiemans why i would do it like that. then i would get it dyno-tuned to see where i stand and adjust around that.

Birdieman4

I have tuned 2 different 4.6 stangs to within 1% of the car's max hp WITHOUT a dyno.

If you can't tell a 10-15 rwhp difference in your car, you don't spend enough time in your car. A 10-15 rwhp difference is significant.

devinsteen

I think I'll get a new chip after the PI head swap and have it tuned on the dyno. I don't need a tune now, but I want one after the swap. That's going to cost alot though. I might have them tune my stock chip right after the swap so I can get better performance until I can get enough $ to get a custom chip.

2000GT4.6

Lets look at it like this. I would be willing to bet you 100 bucks I can swap on and off several times my underdrive pullys, and you cant tell a single differece.

How about an easyer way? My car dynoed at 258 RWHP with my generic (and now worthless) mail order chip on, and 266 (and badly tuned) with it off. You cannot tell any differece simply by seat of the pants feel. I had played with it before, and honestly thought it was making more power with the chip on.

Everyone comes on and talks about installing a aftercat or a set of underdrives and "wow what a difference it makes". You are expecting a difference. Everyone thinks this. Then they go to the track and their et is .1 different. (or go to a dyno)

There was a guy that used to work with me that would swear up and down he could tell if his corsica (rofl) had sythetic or regular oil in it, and wiether or not he needed to add another bottle of octane booster (rofl again).

Your honestly telling me you think you can tune a car within 3 rwhp just by guessing and seat of the pants? Come on. If you can do this, you seriously need to quit your day job and start a performance shop, because I have never seen anyone that could come anywhere close without some sort of bonafide measuring tool.

Birdieman4

I'll take that bet, but let's make it $500.
I am not claiming anything near this.

Guessing? Seat of the pants? The digital wideband takes out all the guessing. Here's a way to put it that might help you understand. I know that a specific a/f # combined with a specific total timing # will produce max hp. If I know, say, that to make maximum hp in a specific 4.6 mustang I need an a/f ratio of 12.5 to 1 at rpm, combined with a total timing # of, say, 23* will give me max hp. Again, if I know what specific #'s the a/f needs to be, as well as timing setting, then I'm maxing the car's hp. Let me put it to you one more way just in case you still don't understand. If I go to a dyno and tune a car, once the car is tuned to make its maximum hp, there will be a specific a/f # at rpm that coresponds. As well, to make max hp on the dyno, there is a corresponding max timing #. Before tuning the car on the dyno, the specific a/f and timing #'s that produced max hp on the dyno could be plugged in to produce max hp. At that point the dyno would just confirm this. I'm tellin' ya, there is more than one way to skin a cat. Oh, by the way, do you realize what I do for a living?

supercharged96gt

Yea you may be able to get close with what your explaining about. With a dyno though you can change what ignition timing will be every 500 rpm and injector bandwith every 500 rpm etc. All changes with a custom tuned chip can be made in 500 rpm increments. Yea you will have a set timing with a timing adjustor but in higher rpm you may want a little less or more timing to make max HP and TQ. with all the adjustments you can do with a dyno to injector, timing, O2, etc it is just more practical and probably more safe to just bring it to a dyno and get it done right the first time. Not saying that your way doesn't work. Just saying it your way was even great don't you think that many people would be trying the same thing. Dyno shops would be going out of buisness. You could prob get close man but sorry IMO it just wont cut it. If i am going to do something I want it done right the first time and will maybe spend a extra hundred bucks to do it.

mdvaldosta

A dyno has nothing to do with what you can set and what you can't set via tuning. The only thing a dyno can do for you that you can't do on the street is give you your hp output. If you have tuning software and the ability to monitor a/f ratio then thats all you need to get a good tune - doing it on a dyno will only get you a #

And the reason "all" people don't do the "same thing" as far as tuning themselves is because...
1. They don't have a wideband 02 - which costs as much as a dyno tune in itself
2. They don't have the tuning software - which costs as much as a dyno tune in itself
3. They don't have the experience or the know-how to do it right, or to do it at all

supercharged96gt

What I meant is getting it custom tuned at a dyno. The dyno with all the tuning equipment will give you A/F along with a number of other stats. I just don't see how you can sit in your drive way with a wideband, timing adjuster, MAF tuner and get the same results as taking it to a reputable speed shop with a dyno. You see I took my car to a speed shop near Austin TX they tried to tune my car with a SCT without a dyno. All they did was sit in the driveway revin the motor trying to get the air fuel right then they take it out on the road and do run after run trying to get it right. They spent a few days on my car and told me that it would take a few more days to get it right. They gave me the option to get my money back or leave it with them to get it perfect ( they said they were almost perfect but not quite there). I took my money back and drove 4 hours to a respectable shop with a dyno to get it tuned. with the SCT and the tune the other shop had it was making 277HP and somewhere around 305TQ. Without the chip(stock tune) i was making 266HP and 295TQ. After getting it tuned with a Diablo Sport Chip on a dyno my numbers came out to 320HP and 379TQ. After that my mind was set I will never get my car tuned unless it is a reputable shop with a dyno.