Proof you can get 400+ hp out of a 4.6 2v NA
09-12-2007, 10:41 AM
#21
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Eskimo Village, Indiana *No Igloo*
Posts: 7,907
RE: Proof you can get 400+ hp out of a 4.6 2v NA
Lastly, if you have 330 rwhp and are getting beat by heavier LS1 cars with general mods you need to learn how to race. A fully bolt on LS1 with cam drop around 400 rwhp. That would be hard to beat but remember the weight advantage.
Sure our cars weigh a little less than the LS1, but certianly not enough to eliminate that 70ish hp youre pointing out.
That's insane.
As for your N/A to F/I comparison. If I could make 400 to the wheels N/A for the same price as F/I. Sure, it'd be neat to say that my car is w/o that blower, or juice, or whatever you want to run.
BUT, if it's going to cost me 3-4X as much, that just isn't gonna be realistic for 98% of your average '96-'04 GT owners.
09-12-2007, 11:36 AM
#22
1st Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 77
RE: Proof you can get 400+ hp out of a 4.6 2v NA
ORIGINAL: 72MachOne99GT
Are you seriously suggesting that a 330 rwhp GT will lay it to a 400 hp LS1 because of a couple hundred pounds?
Sure our cars weigh a little less than the LS1, but certianly not enough to eliminate that 70ish hp youre pointing out.
That's insane.
As for your N/A to F/I comparison. If I could make 400 to the wheels N/A for the same price as F/I. Sure, it'd be neat to say that my car is w/o that blower, or juice, or whatever you want to run.
BUT, if it's going to cost me 3-4X as much, that just isn't gonna be realistic for 98% of your average '96-'04 GT owners.
Lastly, if you have 330 rwhp and are getting beat by heavier LS1 cars with general mods you need to learn how to race. A fully bolt on LS1 with cam drop around 400 rwhp. That would be hard to beat but remember the weight advantage.
Sure our cars weigh a little less than the LS1, but certianly not enough to eliminate that 70ish hp youre pointing out.
That's insane.
As for your N/A to F/I comparison. If I could make 400 to the wheels N/A for the same price as F/I. Sure, it'd be neat to say that my car is w/o that blower, or juice, or whatever you want to run.
BUT, if it's going to cost me 3-4X as much, that just isn't gonna be realistic for 98% of your average '96-'04 GT owners.
It's definitely to each is his own take on NA or Forced Induction.
For comparison sake. of a NA vs FI all things being equal both at 400 flywheel hp.
Which will have a cooler exhaust idle on the street? Majority would say the NA with its cam profile because you can't hear much on a blower car at idle at least not compared to a NA.
Which will be faster at the track or road coarse? The NA, because if its bigbored then its running with an aluminum block with a weight reduction of 80 lbs while the blower car added 110 lbs in supercharger parts. So their reveals a 200 lb difference. Not to mention slight lag getting boost up in the FI car.
Which will be more liable on the street? FI as long as your not gunning it all the time.
Which is more reliable racing? Probably the NA, since the FI didn't have its shortblock replaced to compensate for more hp.
09-12-2007, 11:48 AM
#23
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 7,797
RE: Proof you can get 400+ hp out of a 4.6 2v NA
ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6
Your smoking SERIOUS crack if you think the FRPP heads and big bore setup are going to result in 80 horsepower... flywheel OR at the wheels. The big bore/stroker kits simply do not live up to their expectations, dammedsure no 50 horspower. And show me anybody that is acutally running the FRPP heads. I have yet to see any data whatsoever that says the FRPP heads are that much better than a ported PI2v head from almost any aftermarket company.
The power is simply not there. You are not going to make over about 340 WHP n/a on anything thats anywhere CLOSEto streetable. Ithink code3can vouch that even 340 WHP is unstreetablefor a DD in a 2v car.
The motor you posted WILL NOT make 400 horsepower, flywheel or at the tire. Its still got a stock PI intake, and its only rated at 9.6:1 compression... not anywhere close to the 350 WHP it would take to crack 400 at the fly.
Any 2v motor exceeding about 350ish WHP is going to have insanely wild cam profiles, massive head porting, and a custom short runner intake manifold... and this all adds up to ZERO low end TQ and a very very ****ty running setup until it starts to make RPM.
Why is everyone so horny over n/a 2v performance all of a sudden??? Its a freaking 281 ci engine people! I realise we have a certian forum member turning some good times (his initals are code3gt) but take into consideration just for a second all the other work thats done to the car (suspension, weight reduction, yadda yadda).
Take that 10K enginefrom Seanthat makes about 330 WHP and drop it into your average bolton stang and what do you have? you have a car thats still getting its *** handed to it by the average bolton only LS1... and thats not a postion I want to be in with 10K+ in the motor alone.
Its time to wake up to reality. You picked the wrong car for a n/a only setup.Its only 281 CIsetup with ****ty flowing headsthat even ported can't dream of flowing more than 250 CFM. You have limtied intakeoptions andnotrue aftermarket options for heads. Even that certian someone seems to have a big round bottle and some shiny silver lines plugged into the intake.....
If you want N/A performance you shoulda bought a LS1.
ORIGINAL: paynecasey69
Remember my old thread about the Engine combo? Here it is to jog some memory.
https://mustangforums.com/m_3763557/tm.htm
Here is one of many sites that offer 400 hp NA 2v GT's.
http://www.seanhylandmotorsport.com/mustang-crate-engines.shtml
400 HP 4.6 SOHC
Part No. SHM2V400
4.6 cast iron block, filled with a forged steel crankshaft, forged rods and 9.6-1 compression forged pistons. Ported Pi cylinder heads are fitted with oversize stainless valves and high performance beehive valve springs. A pair of billet camshafts, ground with our hot street cam grind provide a broad powerband and the lopey idle of a hot rod engine, Billet fuel rails, polished billet throttle body and cast aluminum valve covers complete this engine package.
$10,995.00
And Guess what? Thats without a Big Bore Block. and without FRPP heads which our better then PI heads. Any questions? With FRPP estimate another 30 hp, and with a big bore setup another 50 hp. Woot 480 hp 5.0 2v GT.
Remember my old thread about the Engine combo? Here it is to jog some memory.
https://mustangforums.com/m_3763557/tm.htm
Here is one of many sites that offer 400 hp NA 2v GT's.
http://www.seanhylandmotorsport.com/mustang-crate-engines.shtml
400 HP 4.6 SOHC
Part No. SHM2V400
4.6 cast iron block, filled with a forged steel crankshaft, forged rods and 9.6-1 compression forged pistons. Ported Pi cylinder heads are fitted with oversize stainless valves and high performance beehive valve springs. A pair of billet camshafts, ground with our hot street cam grind provide a broad powerband and the lopey idle of a hot rod engine, Billet fuel rails, polished billet throttle body and cast aluminum valve covers complete this engine package.
$10,995.00
And Guess what? Thats without a Big Bore Block. and without FRPP heads which our better then PI heads. Any questions? With FRPP estimate another 30 hp, and with a big bore setup another 50 hp. Woot 480 hp 5.0 2v GT.
The power is simply not there. You are not going to make over about 340 WHP n/a on anything thats anywhere CLOSEto streetable. Ithink code3can vouch that even 340 WHP is unstreetablefor a DD in a 2v car.
The motor you posted WILL NOT make 400 horsepower, flywheel or at the tire. Its still got a stock PI intake, and its only rated at 9.6:1 compression... not anywhere close to the 350 WHP it would take to crack 400 at the fly.
Any 2v motor exceeding about 350ish WHP is going to have insanely wild cam profiles, massive head porting, and a custom short runner intake manifold... and this all adds up to ZERO low end TQ and a very very ****ty running setup until it starts to make RPM.
Why is everyone so horny over n/a 2v performance all of a sudden??? Its a freaking 281 ci engine people! I realise we have a certian forum member turning some good times (his initals are code3gt) but take into consideration just for a second all the other work thats done to the car (suspension, weight reduction, yadda yadda).
Take that 10K enginefrom Seanthat makes about 330 WHP and drop it into your average bolton stang and what do you have? you have a car thats still getting its *** handed to it by the average bolton only LS1... and thats not a postion I want to be in with 10K+ in the motor alone.
Its time to wake up to reality. You picked the wrong car for a n/a only setup.Its only 281 CIsetup with ****ty flowing headsthat even ported can't dream of flowing more than 250 CFM. You have limtied intakeoptions andnotrue aftermarket options for heads. Even that certian someone seems to have a big round bottle and some shiny silver lines plugged into the intake.....
If you want N/A performance you shoulda bought a LS1.
Is it going to be easy to get there? No
Is it going to be cheap to get there? HELL NO
But it's very possible. I'm at 328 at the wheels, with what is said to be the worst intake manifold on the planet (Professional Products Typhoon) shorty headers (gotta be holding me back 1x rwhp from LT's), smallish cams(I could go to Crower Stg 3's) among other things.
IMO, switching to a ported P-51, LT's, a bigger better intake system, and a GREAT tune from THR or MPH, I could gain 20rwhp. And that's without touching the shortblock. Add on a Big Bore kit, and a tad more compression (say 11.5:1) and change the cams and hell I think you could shoot for the stars.
The only reason I haven't messed with all that stuff, is b/c I'm not really all that into having a 350rwhp car. I could pay multiple 1000's for all that ****, or I could go to nitrousexpress.com and order some $3 jets, and be even happier.
I don't see how any of those things would make me any less streetable(aisde from the cams). My car is not just a street car. This is my ONE AND ONLY car. Drives everyday. Work, school, back home (400+ miles on the interstate). +
Now is it a hassel to drive everyday, compared to a bone stock car? Yes.
Would ALL of you guys DD my car? NO
IMO streetability is not an opinion. It's a fact. Can your car go anywhere at anytime, in any conditions? Mine can.
09-12-2007, 11:54 AM
#24
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Slidell, Louisiana
Posts: 5,726
RE: Proof you can get 400+ hp out of a 4.6 2v NA
ORIGINAL: paynecasey69
I wasn't getting my thoughts out correctly about the LS1 statement. I wasn't trying to say a 330 rwhp GT could take a 400rwhp LS1. Though it looks like that is what I was saying. But a NA GT full out should be able to spank the AVERAGE LS1 F-body. However, hp & torq being equal the stang has the advantage of course against the heavier LS1 car.
It's definitely to each is his own take on NA or Forced Induction.
For comparison sake. of a NA vs FI all things being equal both at 400 flywheel hp.
Which will have a cooler exhaust idle on the street? Majority would say the NA with its cam profile because you can't hear much on a blower car at idle at least not compared to a NA.
Which will be faster at the track or road coarse? The NA, because if its bigbored then its running with an aluminum block with a weight reduction of 80 lbs while the blower car added 110 lbs in supercharger parts. So their reveals a 200 lb difference. Not to mention slight lag getting boost up in the FI car.
Which will be more liable on the street? FI as long as your not gunning it all the time.
Which is more reliable racing? Probably the NA, since the FI didn't have its shortblock replaced to compensate for more hp.
ORIGINAL: 72MachOne99GT
Are you seriously suggesting that a 330 rwhp GT will lay it to a 400 hp LS1 because of a couple hundred pounds?
Sure our cars weigh a little less than the LS1, but certianly not enough to eliminate that 70ish hp youre pointing out.
That's insane.
As for your N/A to F/I comparison. If I could make 400 to the wheels N/A for the same price as F/I. Sure, it'd be neat to say that my car is w/o that blower, or juice, or whatever you want to run.
BUT, if it's going to cost me 3-4X as much, that just isn't gonna be realistic for 98% of your average '96-'04 GT owners.
Lastly, if you have 330 rwhp and are getting beat by heavier LS1 cars with general mods you need to learn how to race. A fully bolt on LS1 with cam drop around 400 rwhp. That would be hard to beat but remember the weight advantage.
Sure our cars weigh a little less than the LS1, but certianly not enough to eliminate that 70ish hp youre pointing out.
That's insane.
As for your N/A to F/I comparison. If I could make 400 to the wheels N/A for the same price as F/I. Sure, it'd be neat to say that my car is w/o that blower, or juice, or whatever you want to run.
BUT, if it's going to cost me 3-4X as much, that just isn't gonna be realistic for 98% of your average '96-'04 GT owners.
It's definitely to each is his own take on NA or Forced Induction.
For comparison sake. of a NA vs FI all things being equal both at 400 flywheel hp.
Which will have a cooler exhaust idle on the street? Majority would say the NA with its cam profile because you can't hear much on a blower car at idle at least not compared to a NA.
Which will be faster at the track or road coarse? The NA, because if its bigbored then its running with an aluminum block with a weight reduction of 80 lbs while the blower car added 110 lbs in supercharger parts. So their reveals a 200 lb difference. Not to mention slight lag getting boost up in the FI car.
Which will be more liable on the street? FI as long as your not gunning it all the time.
Which is more reliable racing? Probably the NA, since the FI didn't have its shortblock replaced to compensate for more hp.
09-12-2007, 12:05 PM
#25
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: the flatlands
Posts: 3,456
RE: Proof you can get 400+ hp out of a 4.6 2v NA
Built motor with forged internals = $5,000 dollars, 300 shot direct port Nitrous with tune = $2,000 dollars. Smoking the siht out of a $10,000 dollar N/A mustang engine for 3/4 the price = PRICELESS!
09-12-2007, 12:23 PM
#26
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 7,797
RE: Proof you can get 400+ hp out of a 4.6 2v NA
ORIGINAL: GhostRider02GT
Built motor with forged internals = $5,000 dollars, 300 shot direct port Nitrous with tune = $2,000 dollars. Smoking the siht out of a $10,000 dollar N/A mustang engine for 3/4 the price = PRICELESS!
Built motor with forged internals = $5,000 dollars, 300 shot direct port Nitrous with tune = $2,000 dollars. Smoking the siht out of a $10,000 dollar N/A mustang engine for 3/4 the price = PRICELESS!
I ran a 8.208@88.988 on a 1.857 60ft.
According to the OFFICAL time slips thread, I out ET'd 6 out of 10 S/C 2v's on that page. I out trapped 8 out of 10 S/C 2v's on that page. With 328 all motor rwhp.
Now THAT is PRICELESS!
09-12-2007, 12:25 PM
#27
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Slidell, Louisiana
Posts: 5,726
RE: Proof you can get 400+ hp out of a 4.6 2v NA
ORIGINAL: GhostRider02GT
Built motor with forged internals = $5,000 dollars, 300 shot direct port Nitrous with tune = $2,000 dollars. Smoking the siht out of a $10,000 dollar N/A mustang engine for 3/4 the price = PRICELESS!
Built motor with forged internals = $5,000 dollars, 300 shot direct port Nitrous with tune = $2,000 dollars. Smoking the siht out of a $10,000 dollar N/A mustang engine for 3/4 the price = PRICELESS!
09-12-2007, 12:26 PM
#28
Banned
Join Date: May 2007
Location:
Posts: 4,064
RE: Proof you can get 400+ hp out of a 4.6 2v NA
im sorry but equal power - the FI car is gonna run a train on the NA car 99% of the time, and also I would think that na would be a hell of alot more reliable then a FI car - Wild for Wild setup, but of course a Wild Na car vs stock FI car - yea the FI is going to be more reliable.... but why does exhaust temp matter on a n/a? just curious?
Also the price of mods is at the heart of everything, the mustang pretty much wins that debate against anything - new mustang GT - 23,000 give or take (99-04) new z28 (98-02?) 35,000 give or take - with that 8-12,000 difference..... you get the pitcure
Also the price of mods is at the heart of everything, the mustang pretty much wins that debate against anything - new mustang GT - 23,000 give or take (99-04) new z28 (98-02?) 35,000 give or take - with that 8-12,000 difference..... you get the pitcure
09-12-2007, 12:29 PM
#30
Banned
Join Date: May 2007
Location:
Posts: 4,064
RE: Proof you can get 400+ hp out of a 4.6 2v NA
ORIGINAL: ZW99GT
Built motor with forged internals = way more than 5k in my case, but I'll refer you to a post I made in the official time slips thread.
I ran a 8.208@88.988 on a 1.857 60ft.
According to the OFFICAL time slips thread, I out ET'd 6 out of 10 S/C 2v's on that page. I out trapped 8 out of 10 S/C 2v's on that page. With 328 all motor rwhp.
Now THAT is PRICELESS!
ORIGINAL: GhostRider02GT
Built motor with forged internals = $5,000 dollars, 300 shot direct port Nitrous with tune = $2,000 dollars. Smoking the siht out of a $10,000 dollar N/A mustang engine for 3/4 the price = PRICELESS!
Built motor with forged internals = $5,000 dollars, 300 shot direct port Nitrous with tune = $2,000 dollars. Smoking the siht out of a $10,000 dollar N/A mustang engine for 3/4 the price = PRICELESS!
I ran a 8.208@88.988 on a 1.857 60ft.
According to the OFFICAL time slips thread, I out ET'd 6 out of 10 S/C 2v's on that page. I out trapped 8 out of 10 S/C 2v's on that page. With 328 all motor rwhp.
Now THAT is PRICELESS!