Watts link vs PHB + TA
05-13-2009, 04:44 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NJ / MA
Posts: 1,337
Watts link vs PHB + TA
So one of my next steps is going into the rear suspension. im doing coilovers, control arms, and either a Panhard Bar+Torque Arm setup or a watts link.
if i go the PHB route, im getting one from Maximum Motorsports.
watts link would be from fays2.net
im just wondering why i hear alot more people go the PHB route vs the watts link?
i kno the watts link is more expensive (650 +shipping) vs just the PHB, but when you add the torque arm into the equation typically i've found that the price is about the same if not more? the torque arm itself is 449 @ MM.com, 649 for the Heavy duty one.
also, does anyone know where i can get some front sway bar mounts? i misplaced mine after i did my front suspension
if i go the PHB route, im getting one from Maximum Motorsports.
watts link would be from fays2.net
im just wondering why i hear alot more people go the PHB route vs the watts link?
i kno the watts link is more expensive (650 +shipping) vs just the PHB, but when you add the torque arm into the equation typically i've found that the price is about the same if not more? the torque arm itself is 449 @ MM.com, 649 for the Heavy duty one.
also, does anyone know where i can get some front sway bar mounts? i misplaced mine after i did my front suspension
05-13-2009, 06:41 PM
#3
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 9,235
I agree with MM above 
I run PHB as the Griggs WL would have needed to occupy my spare tire well and opted not to go with it. I SERIOUSLY considered goin Fays2 WL, but don't want to cut the PHB frame off of my ride. I would not hesitate to go Fays2 and recommend it highly.
There is not a huge difference between the two performance wise on the street, but WL is preferred due to the "jacking" that the PHB introduces. If you plan to autoX your ride, go WL for sure!!! There is some inhearant deflection with PHB as well, but is minimal and would NOT be the reason I would site not to get one.
Spend the extra $$$ and go Fays2
Jazzer
PS. Cannot help with sway bar mounts
I run PHB as the Griggs WL would have needed to occupy my spare tire well and opted not to go with it. I SERIOUSLY considered goin Fays2 WL, but don't want to cut the PHB frame off of my ride. I would not hesitate to go Fays2 and recommend it highly.
There is not a huge difference between the two performance wise on the street, but WL is preferred due to the "jacking" that the PHB introduces. If you plan to autoX your ride, go WL for sure!!! There is some inhearant deflection with PHB as well, but is minimal and would NOT be the reason I would site not to get one.
Spend the extra $$$ and go Fays2
Jazzer
PS. Cannot help with sway bar mounts
05-13-2009, 06:41 PM
#4
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 102
I love my MM pan hard bar.
Have bilsteins and steeda sport springs but no torque arm.
I beleive my traction is good enough now I'd be hard pressed in finding a difference through wither watts link or torque arm.
But from a technical standpoint watts link FTW.
Have bilsteins and steeda sport springs but no torque arm.
I beleive my traction is good enough now I'd be hard pressed in finding a difference through wither watts link or torque arm.
But from a technical standpoint watts link FTW.
05-13-2009, 06:56 PM
#5
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NJ / MA
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yea. been looking at it. looks like i can use a torque arm down the line WITH the watts link too. griggs shows thier watts linkage with a TA. the fays2 looks like its far enough back that it shouldnt interfere with a MM.com TA but i'll have to call them and find out first just to be sure... then i could see why people would want the TA/PHB vs a TA/WL setup...
oh and i think i found some front swaybar mounts on steeda.com...
EDIT:
or i might just get a whole new sway bar set @ AM.com..
the eibach set comes with everything...
oh and i think i found some front swaybar mounts on steeda.com...
EDIT:
or i might just get a whole new sway bar set @ AM.com..
the eibach set comes with everything...
Last edited by zero2005; 05-13-2009 at 07:06 PM.
05-13-2009, 07:18 PM
#6
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I have done LOTS of research when I was considering the removal of my current Griggs PHB to Fays2 WL swap. I found no likely issues to occur with my Griggs TA, but could not be ultimately proven until WL were installed. The only issue you "may" have would be some exhaust clearance issues.
Your correct that the bell-crank is located on the pumpkin of the Griggs unit and body frame of Fays2 unit. I have seen both Griggs AND Fays2 declair their way was "best" for installation of the bell-crank as to proper function of the WL. Take that to the FWIW dept. for review.
Jazzer
Your correct that the bell-crank is located on the pumpkin of the Griggs unit and body frame of Fays2 unit. I have seen both Griggs AND Fays2 declair their way was "best" for installation of the bell-crank as to proper function of the WL. Take that to the FWIW dept. for review.
Jazzer
05-13-2009, 08:53 PM
#7
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Dallas
Posts: 2,530
I agree with MM above
I run PHB as the Griggs WL would have needed to occupy my spare tire well and opted not to go with it. I SERIOUSLY considered goin Fays2 WL, but don't want to cut the PHB frame off of my ride. I would not hesitate to go Fays2 and recommend it highly.
There is not a huge difference between the two performance wise on the street, but WL is preferred due to the "jacking" that the PHB introduces. If you plan to autoX your ride, go WL for sure!!! There is some inhearant deflection with PHB as well, but is minimal and would NOT be the reason I would site not to get one.
Spend the extra $$$ and go Fays2
Jazzer
PS. Cannot help with sway bar mounts
I run PHB as the Griggs WL would have needed to occupy my spare tire well and opted not to go with it. I SERIOUSLY considered goin Fays2 WL, but don't want to cut the PHB frame off of my ride. I would not hesitate to go Fays2 and recommend it highly.
There is not a huge difference between the two performance wise on the street, but WL is preferred due to the "jacking" that the PHB introduces. If you plan to autoX your ride, go WL for sure!!! There is some inhearant deflection with PHB as well, but is minimal and would NOT be the reason I would site not to get one.
Spend the extra $$$ and go Fays2
Jazzer
PS. Cannot help with sway bar mounts
05-14-2009, 07:20 AM
#8
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
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^ Due to the travel-arc of the PHB, the axle WILL deflect laterally approx. 1/4" or so during compression/decompression over bumps. This travel will vary depending on conection points of PHB as well as length of bar itself. I have not heard of any rubbing caused by this, but suppose this could be an issue if one was running extremely large rear tires, say a 345 or something, or a VERY short PHB arm.
Other than cost and maybe some additional exhaust clearance issues, the WL is a superior way to go between these two options. Some rules in autoX and such prohibit the use of a WL, so one may want to confirm its use as to not mess up your class.
Jazzer
Other than cost and maybe some additional exhaust clearance issues, the WL is a superior way to go between these two options. Some rules in autoX and such prohibit the use of a WL, so one may want to confirm its use as to not mess up your class.
Jazzer
05-14-2009, 09:24 AM
#9
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,787
Thanks to jazzers knowledge im saving up for a WL right now. not a lot of people on this forum will give such detailed explanations to better your understanding like jazzer does. It actually helps you know what your buying and how its benefiting your car rather then just knowing its better to have. this is a great thread with a lot of good information. The WL is a really good concept and when you look at what it does and how it works you can see how its helping. Another plus is that you can get it in the mail, put your car on jack stands and install it, no welding which id have to have someone else do. in the pictures on the site it almost looks like they have a special carrier cover for fitment. do you need a special one?
05-14-2009, 10:25 AM
#10
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Awe shucks....
I.... I.. *sniff* I..... I love you guys man!
Are you referring to the pumpkin cover?
Nope, the stock one is actually preferable due to the extra clearance it affords to the Fays2 WL. The Griggs and all other WL with traditional design, require the heavy-duty cover as the bell-crank is bolted directly to it. This is the acuall reason why I didn't go WL on my own ride. The stock cover misses the spare tire well by about 3/4" and would need to be cut to install a Griggs WL. I take lots of roadies with the g/f, so I need to carry a spare tire.
Jazzer feelin' the love
I.... I.. *sniff* I..... I love you guys man!
Are you referring to the pumpkin cover?
Nope, the stock one is actually preferable due to the extra clearance it affords to the Fays2 WL. The Griggs and all other WL with traditional design, require the heavy-duty cover as the bell-crank is bolted directly to it. This is the acuall reason why I didn't go WL on my own ride. The stock cover misses the spare tire well by about 3/4" and would need to be cut to install a Griggs WL. I take lots of roadies with the g/f, so I need to carry a spare tire.
Jazzer feelin' the love