Got a supercharger? I need a favor!
08-16-2009, 04:31 PM
#1
5th Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Whitehall, Michigan
Posts: 2,638
Got a supercharger? I need a favor!
Hey,
Open call for support from anyone who is willing to help out, this shouldn't take you much time.
If you've got a supercharged GT with ~7-11 psi and modest mods (nothing too crazy), I would love to see a short datalog of your car.
Take your tuner, and datalog a few things for me, if at all possible:
RPM
Load
Spark
I am trying to build a spark table for a supercharged car and I'm curious what I should be looking for to start to protect my fragile bottom end. I'm thinking 18 degrees up top (5k rpm 90% load) at -most- and I'll probably start lower and slowly bump it up. It's ~24 degrees in stock, N/A form.
Or if you've got suggestions, let em fly!
Open call for support from anyone who is willing to help out, this shouldn't take you much time.
If you've got a supercharged GT with ~7-11 psi and modest mods (nothing too crazy), I would love to see a short datalog of your car.
Take your tuner, and datalog a few things for me, if at all possible:
RPM
Load
Spark
I am trying to build a spark table for a supercharged car and I'm curious what I should be looking for to start to protect my fragile bottom end. I'm thinking 18 degrees up top (5k rpm 90% load) at -most- and I'll probably start lower and slowly bump it up. It's ~24 degrees in stock, N/A form.
Or if you've got suggestions, let em fly!
08-16-2009, 06:21 PM
#2
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 213
This is me running a V3-Si with a stock pulley (about 7lbs) on my 2001 GT.
Unfortunately I haven't done any high RPM pulls that I've logged. I'm still wrestling with a part-throttle fueling issue, and this highest RPM I got to was about 3700. However, I was at WOT when I did it, so the timing tables should be pretty much what I can expect up top.
This is also done on a conservative timing schedule, so take it with a grain of salt.
Hope it helps!
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=1...4e75f6e8ebb871
edit: It's an XML table, but you really need to open it in RECON or Excel to use it. I've tried messing with it in open office and it just doesn't work.
Unfortunately I haven't done any high RPM pulls that I've logged. I'm still wrestling with a part-throttle fueling issue, and this highest RPM I got to was about 3700. However, I was at WOT when I did it, so the timing tables should be pretty much what I can expect up top.
This is also done on a conservative timing schedule, so take it with a grain of salt.
Hope it helps!
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=1...4e75f6e8ebb871
edit: It's an XML table, but you really need to open it in RECON or Excel to use it. I've tried messing with it in open office and it just doesn't work.
08-16-2009, 09:08 PM
#3
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 912
Hey,
Open call for support from anyone who is willing to help out, this shouldn't take you much time.
If you've got a supercharged GT with ~7-11 psi and modest mods (nothing too crazy), I would love to see a short datalog of your car.
Take your tuner, and datalog a few things for me, if at all possible:
RPM
Load
Spark
I am trying to build a spark table for a supercharged car and I'm curious what I should be looking for to start to protect my fragile bottom end. I'm thinking 18 degrees up top (5k rpm 90% load) at -most- and I'll probably start lower and slowly bump it up. It's ~24 degrees in stock, N/A form.
Or if you've got suggestions, let em fly!
Open call for support from anyone who is willing to help out, this shouldn't take you much time.
If you've got a supercharged GT with ~7-11 psi and modest mods (nothing too crazy), I would love to see a short datalog of your car.
Take your tuner, and datalog a few things for me, if at all possible:
RPM
Load
Spark
I am trying to build a spark table for a supercharged car and I'm curious what I should be looking for to start to protect my fragile bottom end. I'm thinking 18 degrees up top (5k rpm 90% load) at -most- and I'll probably start lower and slowly bump it up. It's ~24 degrees in stock, N/A form.
Or if you've got suggestions, let em fly!
08-17-2009, 01:22 PM
#4
5th Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Whitehall, Michigan
Posts: 2,638
Yeah it does only have breakpoints for 90% load. Also, 6000 RPM is fine for me for now, I'm not going to be revving it higher than that till I get a new shortblock in there.
What do you recommend for the normalizers and do you know any PIDs? There's a lot of info in my tune.
It's an RKN2 ECU with FBFG2 strategy.
Seems as if this ECU only has one spark table - MBT spark. My friend's 94 (CBAZA) has MBT, base, altitude, and a fourth I can't think of at the moment... Mine should be pretty easy compared to his.
I'm hoping I don't overshoot 100% load, sounds like it's going to cause issues and you gave me great food for thought if I run into that.
08-17-2009, 01:22 PM
#5
5th Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Whitehall, Michigan
Posts: 2,638
This is me running a V3-Si with a stock pulley (about 7lbs) on my 2001 GT.
Unfortunately I haven't done any high RPM pulls that I've logged. I'm still wrestling with a part-throttle fueling issue, and this highest RPM I got to was about 3700. However, I was at WOT when I did it, so the timing tables should be pretty much what I can expect up top.
This is also done on a conservative timing schedule, so take it with a grain of salt.
Hope it helps!
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=1...4e75f6e8ebb871
edit: It's an XML table, but you really need to open it in RECON or Excel to use it. I've tried messing with it in open office and it just doesn't work.
Unfortunately I haven't done any high RPM pulls that I've logged. I'm still wrestling with a part-throttle fueling issue, and this highest RPM I got to was about 3700. However, I was at WOT when I did it, so the timing tables should be pretty much what I can expect up top.
This is also done on a conservative timing schedule, so take it with a grain of salt.
Hope it helps!
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=1...4e75f6e8ebb871
edit: It's an XML table, but you really need to open it in RECON or Excel to use it. I've tried messing with it in open office and it just doesn't work.
08-17-2009, 02:07 PM
#6
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 912
Binary Editor, and the chip is a Quarterhorse (decided against the tweecer).
Yeah it does only have breakpoints for 90% load. Also, 6000 RPM is fine for me for now, I'm not going to be revving it higher than that till I get a new shortblock in there.
What do you recommend for the normalizers and do you know any PIDs? There's a lot of info in my tune.
It's an RKN2 ECU with FBFG2 strategy.
Seems as if this ECU only has one spark table - MBT spark. My friend's 94 (CBAZA) has MBT, base, altitude, and a fourth I can't think of at the moment... Mine should be pretty easy compared to his.
I'm hoping I don't overshoot 100% load, sounds like it's going to cause issues and you gave me great food for thought if I run into that.
Yeah it does only have breakpoints for 90% load. Also, 6000 RPM is fine for me for now, I'm not going to be revving it higher than that till I get a new shortblock in there.
What do you recommend for the normalizers and do you know any PIDs? There's a lot of info in my tune.
It's an RKN2 ECU with FBFG2 strategy.
Seems as if this ECU only has one spark table - MBT spark. My friend's 94 (CBAZA) has MBT, base, altitude, and a fourth I can't think of at the moment... Mine should be pretty easy compared to his.
I'm hoping I don't overshoot 100% load, sounds like it's going to cause issues and you gave me great food for thought if I run into that.
If you plan to run a blower on a mod motor with 11psi you are going to exceed 100% load. Load can also be called VE, when you force air into an engine its not hard to exceed 100% of the engines volumetric efficiency. You should be able to modify the Y normalizer to take the break points to 199% (1.99) load. I'll grab you a couple of screen shots later of where I would start.
08-19-2009, 11:13 AM
#7
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Whitehall, Michigan
Posts: 2,638
Ill dig in a little more later but I should note this for now.
If you plan to run a blower on a mod motor with 11psi you are going to exceed 100% load. Load can also be called VE, when you force air into an engine its not hard to exceed 100% of the engines volumetric efficiency. You should be able to modify the Y normalizer to take the break points to 199% (1.99) load. I'll grab you a couple of screen shots later of where I would start.
If you plan to run a blower on a mod motor with 11psi you are going to exceed 100% load. Load can also be called VE, when you force air into an engine its not hard to exceed 100% of the engines volumetric efficiency. You should be able to modify the Y normalizer to take the break points to 199% (1.99) load. I'll grab you a couple of screen shots later of where I would start.
I know the CBAZA strategy has multiple methods of calculating load, by just changing the value of a scalar, you can switch it between load based on TPS voltage, calculated VE, or load as a percentage of possible engine load (based off injector pulse width). So for the first, you'd get a clean 0-100%, for the second you could get anything - 10-200%+, and the last, you'd likely see 2-60% with a proper setup.
All depends I guess. I hope it doesn't exceed 100% load. I am keeping the stock MAF but probably adding that MAF.ia... we'll see. If I add the mafia and change the MAF transfer I know I'll end up over 100%. Just trying to avoid that.
08-19-2009, 03:04 PM
#8
5th Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Whitehall, Michigan
Posts: 2,638
Here, I managed to find what I believe you mean, the y normalizer doesn't have RPM in it, just load (0, 1, 8) and rows. So I should be able to get rid of some of those negative values (since when will my RPM be negative, anyway?) and add some more positive values so I can extend the rev limit a bit?
At the same time, my spark tables, the column that said 6000 would then be whatever I set the highest to? It seems like I get 30 revs/point, so the highest I could do with 254 is 7620 RPM with this ECU.
Which is also higher than I'll ever want to go.
The ECU has something like 7300 as a soft limit, I forget the pips/min count exactly, but it was near there. I also want to lower that number to get a "soft" rev limit that doesn't cut fuel - but instead stops calculating spark... any idea where to lower that, as well?
At the same time, my spark tables, the column that said 6000 would then be whatever I set the highest to? It seems like I get 30 revs/point, so the highest I could do with 254 is 7620 RPM with this ECU.
Which is also higher than I'll ever want to go.
The ECU has something like 7300 as a soft limit, I forget the pips/min count exactly, but it was near there. I also want to lower that number to get a "soft" rev limit that doesn't cut fuel - but instead stops calculating spark... any idea where to lower that, as well?
08-21-2009, 02:03 AM
#9
5th Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Whitehall, Michigan
Posts: 2,638
Got a tuning issue now...
I'm using the stock MAF in blow-thru configuration, but I also have a Diablosport MAF.ia to extend its range.
WOT when I start seeing boost the engine goes lean BADLY.
If I don't adjust the tune from N/A, while it was N/A I saw 11 flat at WOT at higher RPM's... I figured this would even itself out with the supercharger.
Instead, at 2500 RPM - 0 boost, A/F is 12.3 or so. 3000 RPM it's 12.8 (starting to get a couple psi) by 4000 RPM I'm seeing 13.3-13.6 and ~4 psi, and I shut it down there because it just keeps getting more lean.
I thought I might have been pegging the MAF that early (no way to data log it yet, friend is using his SCT tuner) so I set the MAF.ia to setting 4, which is a 57% reduction, and multiplied my entire MAF transfer function to the proper amount.
Driveability was like before the MAF.ia was on there - so I know I did that right. But I still saw the same issues when going WOT, as soon as I would start to make boost, it would just go lean.
42 lb injectors, 310lph fuel pump - but stock fuel rails. Fuel delivery really shouldn't be an issue but I worry it is. I need to find a way to datalog fuel pressure.
Suggestions on the tune?
I'm using the stock MAF in blow-thru configuration, but I also have a Diablosport MAF.ia to extend its range.
WOT when I start seeing boost the engine goes lean BADLY.
If I don't adjust the tune from N/A, while it was N/A I saw 11 flat at WOT at higher RPM's... I figured this would even itself out with the supercharger.
Instead, at 2500 RPM - 0 boost, A/F is 12.3 or so. 3000 RPM it's 12.8 (starting to get a couple psi) by 4000 RPM I'm seeing 13.3-13.6 and ~4 psi, and I shut it down there because it just keeps getting more lean.
I thought I might have been pegging the MAF that early (no way to data log it yet, friend is using his SCT tuner) so I set the MAF.ia to setting 4, which is a 57% reduction, and multiplied my entire MAF transfer function to the proper amount.
Driveability was like before the MAF.ia was on there - so I know I did that right. But I still saw the same issues when going WOT, as soon as I would start to make boost, it would just go lean.
42 lb injectors, 310lph fuel pump - but stock fuel rails. Fuel delivery really shouldn't be an issue but I worry it is. I need to find a way to datalog fuel pressure.
Suggestions on the tune?
08-21-2009, 02:04 AM
#10
5th Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Whitehall, Michigan
Posts: 2,638
Got a tuning issue now...
I'm using the stock MAF in blow-thru configuration, but I also have a Diablosport MAF.ia to extend its range.
WOT when I start seeing boost the engine goes lean BADLY.
If I don't adjust the tune from N/A, while it was N/A I saw 11 flat at WOT at higher RPM's... I figured this would even itself out with the supercharger.
Instead, at 2500 RPM - 0 boost, A/F is 12.3 or so. 3000 RPM it's 12.8 (starting to get a couple psi) by 4000 RPM I'm seeing 13.3-13.6 and ~4 psi, and I shut it down there because it just keeps getting more lean.
I thought I might have been pegging the MAF that early (no way to data log it yet, friend is using his SCT tuner) so I set the MAF.ia to setting 4, which is a 57% reduction, and multiplied my entire MAF transfer function to the proper amount.
Driveability was like before the MAF.ia was on there - so I know I did that right. But I still saw the same issues when going WOT, as soon as I would start to make boost, it would just go lean.
42 lb injectors, 310lph fuel pump - but stock fuel rails. Fuel delivery really shouldn't be an issue but I worry it is. I need to find a way to datalog fuel pressure.
Suggestions on the tune?
I'm using the stock MAF in blow-thru configuration, but I also have a Diablosport MAF.ia to extend its range.
WOT when I start seeing boost the engine goes lean BADLY.
If I don't adjust the tune from N/A, while it was N/A I saw 11 flat at WOT at higher RPM's... I figured this would even itself out with the supercharger.
Instead, at 2500 RPM - 0 boost, A/F is 12.3 or so. 3000 RPM it's 12.8 (starting to get a couple psi) by 4000 RPM I'm seeing 13.3-13.6 and ~4 psi, and I shut it down there because it just keeps getting more lean.
I thought I might have been pegging the MAF that early (no way to data log it yet, friend is using his SCT tuner) so I set the MAF.ia to setting 4, which is a 57% reduction, and multiplied my entire MAF transfer function to the proper amount.
Driveability was like before the MAF.ia was on there - so I know I did that right. But I still saw the same issues when going WOT, as soon as I would start to make boost, it would just go lean.
42 lb injectors, 310lph fuel pump - but stock fuel rails. Fuel delivery really shouldn't be an issue but I worry it is. I need to find a way to datalog fuel pressure.
Suggestions on the tune?