MustangGT0405

Before you start on the trans I would check the clutch. My car when running is hard to get into first and sometimes near impossible to get in reverse. Like you when sitting with the engine off it shifts fine.

I was told that it was the fact that the clutch is not fully disengaging so it is hanging up. One in motion it shifts fine.

I dont beat on my car much and never power shift, but I am making a fair amount of power.

If I had to swap out my trans I would get a TR-6060 and use a GT-500 clutch. Honestly I dont think there is a clutch on the market that is 100% for the S197. I have a Mcloed RST which is one of the best from my research and I still have problems.

Good Luck and let us know what the problem is.

AmericanPowertrain

You are absolutely right! Many of these cars have clutches that drag, especially at high rpm, which causes not only slow, crunchy shifting, but sometimes shifter fork damage. One of the easiest ways to check this is to get the car warm on the road, stop, put it in first with the clutch on the floor and give it some gas. As the rpms climb if you feel the car trying to crawl forward even a little bit then you need to adjust the clutch or get a replacement disc with a thinner overall design or less cushion. Good luck.

moosestang

What!!!!!!!! I thought the RST was the end all clutch for the s197? Does it try and move when reving it? I've never had a problem shifting with the spec stage 2, I guess I got lucky.

Americanpowertrain, what does one of your 750hp 3650's cost? Your website doesn't list a price and I didn't want to get a quote right now since i'm not in the market yet. Are we talking half the price of a t6060 kit? What kind of input shaft does it come with, 10 spine? 26 spline? hardened?

AmericanPowertrain

Hey Moosetang (cool screen name by the way) Generally speaking the problem with the clutch is not that it moves when you rev the engine, it is that the marcel, or cushion, in the hub expands which effectively makes the disc thicker. You have a very small gap between the plate and the flywheel on these cars and a fat cushion can actually cause clutch drag. There have also been problems with the hydraulic clutches not bleeding out all the way. They are a very small system so one little tiny air bubble can really wreck your actuation. If you drag the clutch at 4000+ rpm you are going to frag your shift forks and/or crack the crappy keys that the factory put in your transmission. The RST has solid hubs, so you should not have this problem, though it may be shimmed incorrectly. You need to make sure your RST was shimmed flat from the factory. Some of the older ones were a bit ca ca, don't know about the latest generation. By the way, the RST is absolute hell on a transmission when it is new because it has literally no slip built in and delivers a huge shock load to the gearbox. That shock load is usually soaked up by the Marcel and rebound hub springs in a common clutch set-up.

The American Powertrain 3650Extreme is $1895 and comes with a pile of upgrades including a dual-base welded 26-spline input shaft. This input is welded twice, once on the outside and once inside the head unit, making it the strongest input available for the 3650. The transmission also has cryo hardened forks, hardened roll pins, new bearings and seals, upgraded synchros, billet keys, a billet cluster support and carbon fiber pads. Plus it is hand built by the same guys who build the fastest 3650s on earth.

I know you are not in the market now, but if you did order by Christmas your shipping is free because you are a forum member. You can also save a little money by sending your own transmission to be built into an Extreme. Let me know if you have other questions.

wilkinda

Adjust the clutch?? Ford says it a hydraulic and there is no adjustment to the clutch... Am I missing something here??!!

moosestang

Thanks! That sounds like a very viable option when i break my stock transmission.

I don't have the RST. I was just curious if his car creeps at all. I have a spec stage 2, not to be confused with the 2+ which has given people a lot of problems. I'm actually pretty happy with my clutch so far, but I've yet to take it to the track.

What fluid do you recommend in the stock transmission or your extreme 3650? I've been running the royal purple synchromax for a few thousand miles and the heat difference is night and day. My shifter doesn't get hot anymore, cooler is better right, but I wonder if it's hurting any internal parts.

Sorry to hijack the post, but that's how I roll.

Moosestang, it's what my friends kid calls my car. It just stuck with me.

AmericanPowertrain

Nope, you are not missing a thing. The hydraulic clutch SHOULD be absolutely bullet proof, but some of them are not bled properly and the presence of any air in the system is a big huge pain in the butt. Mostly this is a problem post clutch change and is not an issue from the factory. The car in question has been upgraded to a SPEC clutch, so the hydraulics have been re-installed at least once. Sorry for any confusion. AP

AmericanPowertrain

The 3650Extreme is a piece we are very proud of. Keeps a lot of guys from having to plop down almost $3000 to get a TKO in an 05-08.

I really like the GM Synchromesh, which is what the SMax is patterned after. Cooler is better, and as long as the fluid slings at the proper rate to allow good synchronization you should be good. A transmission is designed with it's fluid as a moving part and synchronization depends on the fluid having the correct lubricity and sling rate. It's not like an engine where more slippery and more detergent value is almost always better.

Sometimes the wrong fluid can either evacuate or hold on to the synchros too long and cause crunchy shifting. SMax has been known to cause this. You may want to go back to the OE recommended fluid (cheap old Dex 3) and see if that cleans up your shifting. I did not even think to ask what fluid you were running. The good news is that the wrong fluid does not cause lasting damage even if the gears crunch a bit, unless you are beating the $hit out of the transmission.

hammeron

hello AmericanPowertrain, since we are on the
subject....in your experience, whats the best
way for someone to bleed the clutch system
when doing it at home? i just put in an RST
and need to do this now.....

thanks for your input

AmericanPowertrain

I always bleed hydraulic systems from the top with a device called a vacuula, which is a negative pressure canister for a compressor. Essentially I put fluid in the system then put a vacuum on the brake fluid reservoir and pull any air out of the system. You can accomplish the same thing with a mighty vac (a hand pump). This is the way Ford says to do it too. Oddly enough, sometimes you simply cannot get all the air out and you have to let nature take it's course. After a few days (yes, it takes days) the air in the system will usually work it's way to the top (bubbles float). Just go slow and do not put such a huge amount of pull on the system that you end up pulling through a seal. If you get an unending flow of air then there is a leak somewhere. Like sucking on a straw with the end pinched, if you open the end at all, air will immediately rush in. Hope this helps.

Oh, one more thing. When you pump the clutch pedal, go SLOOOOW and make sure it is making it's full sweep from home (up) to fully engaged, even if you have to put your hand down there and pull the pedal up. If you only get a partial stroke you will introduce more air into the system and you will never get it bled. AP