The Alien

Hello folks, I think I need your help and your experience.

I know that this engine has a knocking noise that is considered "normal" and I read several posts but I think this issue is slightly different.

all post I read are talking about a knocking noise at idle mine is not.

so, running the engine at cold is perfect, nothing at all.

when warm, at between 1400 and 1700 rpm it start to do a heavy knocking noise and it disappear when going above or below this range.

it seems it does when I have a slightly load on the engine because I heard it when the drive is on. If I put on Parking or Neutral, the engine sounds fine until I don't turn on light, fan, and anything else (applying load)

I was trying to hear in which bank I have the noise but I feel it on the middle, but upper; maybe I've been confused by the resonance of the intake that amplify the noise. I'll try with a stethoscope tonight to see if I have more info.

The car run great, no power loss, no oil leak or consumption. it's pretty much perfect but this noise.


the noise was present since I bought the car when it was 73kmiles (now is 94k) but I see now that if I try to cause the sound, so trying to stay more at 1500 rpm, now the noise is going worse and if I stay more than 3 seconds at that rpm, the engine start to knocking louder, the gas pedal doesn't respond anymore and the engine stalls and stops.

turning it on again it run perfectly as nothing happened, unless I don use that rpm range or I wait to cool it down.

when it stalls, sometimes I receive the P0345 error (camshaft phaser circuit bank 2 error) but I don't understand if it's the cause or the consequence of the engine stall (I read that this error code appears when a bad alternator occurs, so I suppose that when the idle starts to go too low before stalling, it can create this)




this is the summary:

Mustang GT 2005
Automatic transmission
94k miles (bought when it was 73k still making noise)
Alternator replaced 1 year ago (and the noise was present with the old one too)
no oil leak
no metal scrap on oil
no power loss
spark plugs replaced 10k miles ago with the one piece Champion (BTW the noise was still present earlier)
at cold the engine doesn't have any issue
at warm only
if in parking no noise until I don' apply load as lights and fans
if in drive always
only between 1400 and 1700 rpm
noise seems to be on the upper engine on the middle (maybe the intake amplify noise?)


my thought:

bad chain tensioner (I need to check with the stethoscope if it's on the front cover)
bad cam phasers
bad cam phaser solenoid (it's weird, I tried to unplug both and no error code and no difference, are they working?)
bad lifter (but I should hear it only on a bank)
bad rod bearing (but it's weird because on heavy load it doesn't have noises)
the alternator again? (it will justify the noise on the middle but it doesn't seem an alternator noise (I will remove the belt tonight to be sure)


Sorry for the long thread, I'm really drive crazy and I know myself I will open the whole engine if I don't have any clue

thank you so much in advance for your help, I'll really appreciate any kind of help.

read you soon

DLEN

moosestang

I think you can rule out bad rod bearing. You'd hear it knocking all the time. It's probably the phasers partially clogged. I bet if you switch to a 5w40, the noise will go away. Ford actually has a tsb for the f150 5.4 3v that recommends 10w40 to quiet the noise.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1897871

I love the guy that says anything other than 5w20 will cause cam phaser damage! What an idiot.

The Alien

yep the oil test is the next step but the knocking \ clanking noise it seems very loud to be something could be fixed with a different oil.
I'll try to make a sound clip today.

I'm pretty sure that it's something related to the timing system because when I keep for more than 3 seconds at those rpm making noise, the engine starts to stall and stop.

If it was only the phasers, who cares but If it's the chain, I will have big issues later.

tonight I will open a head cover hoping to see something.

thx for now

PS: nice ride on the picture ; I'm a "six wheeler" too

moosestang

Increasing oil viscosity will increase pressure when warm and hopefully quiet the cam phasers.

The Alien

ok, a little update.

this evening it stalled again twice at the stop sign, making even louder noise.

BUT unplugging the timing actuators and turning on, the noise disappear.

the engine runs well and the exhaust note is better too .

I know that in this way I use more gas and the engine is a bit more lazy but with this test I could be sure that was nothing serious. the noise was really similar at broken engine but as a magic, it disappeared passed the specific RPM.

Now, to see which bank was it made me a bit mad because when you disconnect any of two actuators, both are disabled; I suppose to avoid an uneven firing between the two banks.
So if I unplug the bank 1 actuator: no noise
if I unplug the bank 2 actuator: no noise
when both are plugged: it's like putting rocks in a washing machine.


but when checking with the OBD diagnostic, when the noise appears, the O2 sensor on bank 1 (passenger side) starts to work bad.

So, I suppose is a bank 2 issue, even I think is better to change the piece on both sides. but what piece?

it can be the timing phaser wheel or the solenoid actuator. tomorrow I will remove the solenoid, it's easy to check, and I'll try to clean it.

on the meanwhile I'll check for parts cost.

American Muscle has only the complete kit (I don't want to open the whole front cover for chains for now, even if I should).

Do you know where I can find those parts at fair price?

moosestang

You are talking about unplugging the VCT solenoids? The ones that stick out of the cam covers?

You can get anything from rockauto.com or tousleyfordparts.com, both have good prices. I think the solenoids run $100 each. They have a small screen inside them that can get clogged and cause the cam phasers to make noise or they can simply fail.

The Alien

yep those, sorry I didn't know the right terminology in English

Perfect thanks, I'm going to check from them. I'm 'new' from here and all brands and stores are completely new for me.

thank you again, appreciated and I'll let you know at the end what it was.

The Alien

et voila another update:

I just opened one head cover and I saw that one of the chain guides is broken in two pieces. the two parts are still on their places with the two bolts but they are moving and the top piece is cracking around the bolt.

I don't know if it's the cause of the noise or maybe a consequence of a bad timing sprocket.
Anyway, to replace the guidde I need to remove the front timing cover so I think it's a good excuse to replace everything and doing the job only once.

I was checking the timing kit that American Muscle have in list. Did you ever use that?

The Alien

Bumping up.

Soooooo, I opened the timing cover and I found some stuff I didn't like...


the chain Slider was broken in three parts



and the tensioner had a bad gasket. for what I could see, the gasket was cut when it was installed (antway, too late for a warranty issue)

By the way, unfortunately the broken slider was the consequence and not the cause...

replaced both cam phasers, tensioners, sliders, sprockets, chain and even if in a less way, it has the same issue. at 1200 1500 rpm it makes noise and if stay more than 2 seconds in this way, the noise get louder and the engine stalls.

the noise is for sure the chain that get loosen and tight due to the phasers and brutally hit the chain slider.

so there is something on the top but not the phaser, this one is brand new.

is it possible the solenoid can do this "intermittent" tension to the chain? I switched both solenoids and the noise was always on the same side (but the timing cover amplify a lot)

maybe is a issue on the oil ducts on the camshaft?
maybe there is a oil clog somewhere?

if I disconnect the solenoid everything is ok; it's weird because when the solenoid is at 0% (for example, I disconnect it) it's position is wide open and I don't have issues with the noise.

when it works, it close the duct... so if there is a oil clog somewhere, I have to listen the noise also with the solenoid disconnected right?


I'm really lost, I don't see the light


but I will order the solenoids, other money but the last thing I didn't change yet.

moosestang

Some of the f150 owners with this same noise fixed it by changing the vct solenoids.