How strong are manual transmissions?(4.6)
07-01-2013, 01:30 AM
#11
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 545
I am relaying what the service manager and tech told me. It also states clealy in my Ford ESP that the warranty will only be upheld by using motorcraft or equivalent parts and service intervals. I still have 3 years on my extended warranty and dont plan on losing it because of some internet forum said it was okay to. If people want to think they know better then ford then that is their business. For me i will use what is spec'd to be used so to keep my car running the way the manufacturer who spent millions in r&d intended it to.
Ford buys the TR3650, Tremec manufactures it. Tremec just may know better.
Based on everything i've read, the current Mercon V is at least semi-synthetic. If Ford changed to a non-synthetic Mercon V spec, there should be a TSB on it. Can you find it? Better yet, ask your Ford Service Manager. If you look at all the Mercon V TSBs, you'll find that you shouldn't use Mercon V in older automatic transmissions because their seals weren't designed for synthetic fluids. Ask your Service Manager to show you the TSB warning against using synthetic type Mercon V fluid in your 2005 Mustang TR3650
Tremec manufactures the transmission and specs Mobil 1 synthetic ATF. Ford uses Mercon because they make Mercon and they wanted to reduce the number of ATFs required to service their cars and trucks. They've got it down to two now: Mercon V and Mercon SP.
Last edited by Sonic Mustang; 07-01-2013 at 02:01 AM.
07-01-2013, 11:45 AM
#12
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Ca
Posts: 80
I asked for clarification ON WHETHER OR NOT MERCON V WAS THE CORRECT REPLACEMENT FOR MERCON THE ORIGINAL SPECIFIED FLUID. I never said nor asked about any other manufacturers fluid synthetic or otherwise other then ford/mercon V. I don't know where you are confusing me and mobil 1, that was another poster just so it is clear. Again read post # 3, 6 and 8.
My mistake in my original post is not specifying I was still under warranty. You can say you spoke to whomever at tremec all you want but if you were under warranty and your trans fails because of using a fluid ford doesn't spec then I promise you tremec is not going to give you a new trans under warranty that would be ford and they won't give you a new one if they determine the reason for the failure is the incorrect fluid. That is what I was saying and that is what I said. Again get your facts straight.
I simply stated that the Ford representative (same people who assembled our cars and will warranty it) I spoke to said they will not cover anything wrong with the trans under warranty unless you use what ford tell you to use. What I was doing was relaying the message that I was told as to be helpful. The reason I asked about the fluid was to get clarification and feedback as to whether or not there was a more current manufacture recommended fluid then mercon v. But after engaging you in this thread I will take the advice of the 22 year Ford Service Manager/Tech rather then someone who I am not even sure even has a S197. Thanks for clearing it up for me.
My mistake in my original post is not specifying I was still under warranty. You can say you spoke to whomever at tremec all you want but if you were under warranty and your trans fails because of using a fluid ford doesn't spec then I promise you tremec is not going to give you a new trans under warranty that would be ford and they won't give you a new one if they determine the reason for the failure is the incorrect fluid. That is what I was saying and that is what I said. Again get your facts straight.
I simply stated that the Ford representative (same people who assembled our cars and will warranty it) I spoke to said they will not cover anything wrong with the trans under warranty unless you use what ford tell you to use. What I was doing was relaying the message that I was told as to be helpful. The reason I asked about the fluid was to get clarification and feedback as to whether or not there was a more current manufacture recommended fluid then mercon v. But after engaging you in this thread I will take the advice of the 22 year Ford Service Manager/Tech rather then someone who I am not even sure even has a S197. Thanks for clearing it up for me.
Last edited by 02GTowner; 07-01-2013 at 04:15 PM.
07-01-2013, 01:56 PM
#13
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Baytown, TX
Posts: 3,115
LOL
a ford service tech would happily use their own oil and pocket customer provided oil, and after seeing what lesser oils will do I wouldn't bother worrying about what some guy at a dealership says.
I'd trust the people that built it and just stop using a dealership that hires people that don't know their ****.
a ford service tech would happily use their own oil and pocket customer provided oil, and after seeing what lesser oils will do I wouldn't bother worrying about what some guy at a dealership says.
I'd trust the people that built it and just stop using a dealership that hires people that don't know their ****.
07-01-2013, 04:45 PM
#14
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 545
I asked for clarification ON WHETHER OR NOT MERCON V WAS THE CORRECT REPLACEMENT FOR MERCON THE ORIGINAL SPECIFIED FLUID. I never said nor asked about any other manufacturers fluid synthetic or otherwise other then ford/mercon V. I don't know where you are confusing me and mobil 1, that was another poster just so it is clear. Again read post # 3, 6 and 8.
My mistake in my original post is not specifying I was still under warranty. You can say you spoke to whomever at tremec all you want but if you were under warranty and your trans fails because of using a fluid ford doesn't spec then I promise you tremec is not going to give you a new trans under warranty that would be ford and they won't give you a new one if they determine the reason for the failure is the incorrect fluid. That is what I was saying and that is what I said. Again get your facts straight.
I simply stated that the Ford representative (same people who assembled our cars and will warranty it) I spoke to said they will not cover anything wrong with the trans under warranty unless you use what ford tell you to use. What I was doing was relaying the message that I was told as to be helpful. The reason I asked about the fluid was to get clarification and feedback as to whether or not there was a more current manufacture recommended fluid then mercon v. But after engaging you in this thread I will take the advice of the 22 year Ford Service Manager/Tech rather then someone who I am not even sure even has a S197. Thanks for clearing it up for me.
My mistake in my original post is not specifying I was still under warranty. You can say you spoke to whomever at tremec all you want but if you were under warranty and your trans fails because of using a fluid ford doesn't spec then I promise you tremec is not going to give you a new trans under warranty that would be ford and they won't give you a new one if they determine the reason for the failure is the incorrect fluid. That is what I was saying and that is what I said. Again get your facts straight.
I simply stated that the Ford representative (same people who assembled our cars and will warranty it) I spoke to said they will not cover anything wrong with the trans under warranty unless you use what ford tell you to use. What I was doing was relaying the message that I was told as to be helpful. The reason I asked about the fluid was to get clarification and feedback as to whether or not there was a more current manufacture recommended fluid then mercon v. But after engaging you in this thread I will take the advice of the 22 year Ford Service Manager/Tech rather then someone who I am not even sure even has a S197. Thanks for clearing it up for me.
If you bothered reading the '05 owner's manual, you'd see that it calls for Mercon V, not Mercon.
You also stated that your Service Manager told you synthetic fluid will void your warranty. Mercon V is semi-synthetic and Valvoline makes a full synthetic Mercon V. I tried to explain to you that if Ford Motor Company decreed a synthetic licensed Mercon V would void your warranty, there would be a Technical Service Bulletin about it. I also tried explaining to you that the only warnings against using full synthetic in any Ford TSB that I've ever read apply to OLD pre 1994 autos. I tried telling you the Service Manager is confused.
Your service manager didn't design and build your car. He doesn't warranty it, either. He doesn't even work for the people who do. A verbal representation of the written warranty from a service manager is worthless.
Hell, your warranty booklet even has language specifying that what is written in the booklet is the entire warranty and cannot be modified by anyone except Ford Motor Company. You'd know that if you read it. But, if you were a reader, you would have known your '05 owners manual specifies Mercon V.
Last edited by Sonic Mustang; 07-01-2013 at 05:06 PM.
07-01-2013, 05:38 PM
#15
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 26
How durable and strong are the manual transmissions in the 2008 Mustang GT?
Took a 08 Bullitt for a test drive and it was fun as hell
Felt surprisingly easy to drive, easy to modulate the shifter and it felt solid.. no slack moving it back and forth, no hard to shift gears etc. I really liked it.
Just wondering how long they typically last. Not drag racing, just normal daily driving and high way runs every now and then
Took a 08 Bullitt for a test drive and it was fun as hell
Felt surprisingly easy to drive, easy to modulate the shifter and it felt solid.. no slack moving it back and forth, no hard to shift gears etc. I really liked it.
Just wondering how long they typically last. Not drag racing, just normal daily driving and high way runs every now and then
07-02-2013, 01:29 AM
#16
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Ca
Posts: 80
Mercon V wasn't spec'd until April 1 2007 as the replacement fluid in a 05 mustang gt. My manual doesn't say Mercon V. It says Mercon. Which is WHY I was asking if people have been using Mercon V in their mustangs. There I also found several articles and TSB's on the TR-3650. Seems there was even confusion/contradiction between Ford and Tremec Engineers about fill capacities and fluid type. Also 01-04 New edge mustangs with the 3650 also have slightly different 4th and 5th gear ratios vs the 05-up S197's with 3.55 rear gears.
Here is an excerpt from one of the articles on the topic:
"TREMEC engineers have recommended Texaco-Havoline Dexron III/Mercon Non-Synthetic ATF. There has been a significant amount of confusion regarding the proper capacity and proper type of ATF for the TR-3650 which may have a correlation with a rather large number of complaints about notchy shifting, shift "nibbling", noisy synchros, and grinding gears. The 2007 Mustang GT owner's manual specified the use of 3.0 L of non-synthetic Mercon ATF in the 3650, while the 2008 Mustang GT owner's manual now specifies the use of 3.0 L of Mercon-V ATF in the 3650. Dexron III/Mercon Non-Synthetic ATF seems to work best for pre-2005 Mustang GTs. NB: Tremec service manual also specifies Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF ( Tremec specification ET-M-99 ) in addition to Dexron III."
I have read where people are using Royal Purple, Pennzoil Syncromesh, Mobil 1, etc in their trans. However What I have read and found is it depends on which authority you speak to, Tremec or Ford and the year of manufacturer.
Here is an excerpt from one of the articles on the topic:
"TREMEC engineers have recommended Texaco-Havoline Dexron III/Mercon Non-Synthetic ATF. There has been a significant amount of confusion regarding the proper capacity and proper type of ATF for the TR-3650 which may have a correlation with a rather large number of complaints about notchy shifting, shift "nibbling", noisy synchros, and grinding gears. The 2007 Mustang GT owner's manual specified the use of 3.0 L of non-synthetic Mercon ATF in the 3650, while the 2008 Mustang GT owner's manual now specifies the use of 3.0 L of Mercon-V ATF in the 3650. Dexron III/Mercon Non-Synthetic ATF seems to work best for pre-2005 Mustang GTs. NB: Tremec service manual also specifies Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF ( Tremec specification ET-M-99 ) in addition to Dexron III."
I have read where people are using Royal Purple, Pennzoil Syncromesh, Mobil 1, etc in their trans. However What I have read and found is it depends on which authority you speak to, Tremec or Ford and the year of manufacturer.
07-02-2013, 01:55 AM
#18
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 545
The paragraph you quoted appeared on Wikipedia and was reposted on every Ford enthusiast website on the web.
Except for the last sentence, it is not sourced.
Read post 8 here, written by a ex Ford transmission engineer.
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/83...ns-fluids.html
According to him, there are synthetic and dino Mercon Vs. Your warranty calls for Mercon V or its equivalent.
Also read post 21 here. http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/83...-fluids-2.html While the question referenced another Ford transmission, the answer confirms what I've been trying to tell you.
Licensed synthetic Mercon Vs exist. The Ford spec for ATF includes licensed equivalents. By definition, a licensed Mercon V has to meet Ford Mercon V spec.
Like you keep trying to tell me, the ONLY authority for Ford warranty purposes is Ford Motor Company. Like I keep telling you, your service manager IS NOT Ford Motor Company. Show me the Ford TSB warning against using a synthetic Mercon V in your transmission. If it doesn't exist, what your service service manager learned from Wikipedia is 100% bull****.
Except for the last sentence, it is not sourced.
Read post 8 here, written by a ex Ford transmission engineer.
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/83...ns-fluids.html
According to him, there are synthetic and dino Mercon Vs. Your warranty calls for Mercon V or its equivalent.
Also read post 21 here. http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/83...-fluids-2.html While the question referenced another Ford transmission, the answer confirms what I've been trying to tell you.
Licensed synthetic Mercon Vs exist. The Ford spec for ATF includes licensed equivalents. By definition, a licensed Mercon V has to meet Ford Mercon V spec.
Like you keep trying to tell me, the ONLY authority for Ford warranty purposes is Ford Motor Company. Like I keep telling you, your service manager IS NOT Ford Motor Company. Show me the Ford TSB warning against using a synthetic Mercon V in your transmission. If it doesn't exist, what your service service manager learned from Wikipedia is 100% bull****.
Last edited by Sonic Mustang; 07-02-2013 at 02:09 AM.
07-02-2013, 03:35 AM
#19
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Ca
Posts: 80
I got my info from the another mustang forum.
"According to him, there are synthetic and dino Mercon Vs. Your warranty calls for Mercon V or its equivalent." There that is what I am asking, when my vehicle was made(june 05) it was spec'd for mercon which I know is not synthetic my original question was and still is if you have an early s197 with a 3650 trans will mercon V which wasn't in the car when it was made be okay to use? From everything I have read yes and my source confirmed that as well as you however I have read both on this forum and others about how the paper lined syncros on early 05 models and especially and earlier 99-04 3650's can be damaged by using anything other then what ford calls for.
http://www.moddedmustangs.com/forums...nny-fluid.html
http://www.pro-forceperformance.com/tr3650_history.htm
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...&Number=522984
"According to him, there are synthetic and dino Mercon Vs. Your warranty calls for Mercon V or its equivalent." There that is what I am asking, when my vehicle was made(june 05) it was spec'd for mercon which I know is not synthetic my original question was and still is if you have an early s197 with a 3650 trans will mercon V which wasn't in the car when it was made be okay to use? From everything I have read yes and my source confirmed that as well as you however I have read both on this forum and others about how the paper lined syncros on early 05 models and especially and earlier 99-04 3650's can be damaged by using anything other then what ford calls for.
http://www.moddedmustangs.com/forums...nny-fluid.html
http://www.pro-forceperformance.com/tr3650_history.htm
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...&Number=522984
07-02-2013, 06:01 PM
#20
S197 Section Modder-ator
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orlando FL
Posts: 13,373
On topic and accurate.
02GTowner and Sonic: If you two can't get your schit together and be on topic, GTFO!
We got enough weenie comparo as it is in this section.