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5.0L V8 Technical Discussions Any questions about the 'Coyote' engine, transmission, exhaust, tuners/CAI, or gearing can be asked here!

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Old 04-23-2010, 10:31 PM   #1
GrayGhost01GT
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Default Inside line on 11 GT!?!?

Hey guys is the Inside line really that good of source of car reviews because their dyno numbers suck than with that of motor trend, or did Ford give their motor trend car a little juice we did not know about? When I say juiced it up like with inflated numbers to make the mustang more appealing? Inside line says they got 395HP and only 365 TQ. Motor Trend claims 435 HP and 404 TQ thats a pretty nice size gap in two dyno's! Now I do not know the trannys in the cars if they were both manual or automatic. But this is a little weird seems like inside line drivers are a little crappy on the driving side too Motor trend got 4.3 0-60 and inside line only got 4.8. I dont kno seems like some numbers are a little off I hope Ford did not give out a car beefed up for the editors and we not see the advertised power. any thoughts?
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Old 04-23-2010, 10:51 PM   #2
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I'd love to see the 11 be seriously underrated, but the 395 number sounds more realistic to me. And still, 395 is more to the ground than you would expect out of a 412hp car. Roush 427r's have 435 and they put what 380 to the ground.
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Old 04-23-2010, 11:17 PM   #3
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That's 395 at the wheels ... which is almost 450 at the crank ... that's some serious HP on the 5.0!!
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Old 04-24-2010, 03:35 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrayGhost01GT View Post
Hey guys is the Inside line really that good of source of car reviews because their dyno numbers suck than with that of motor trend, or did Ford give their motor trend car a little juice we did not know about? When I say juiced it up like with inflated numbers to make the mustang more appealing? Inside line says they got 395HP and only 365 TQ. Motor Trend claims 435 HP and 404 TQ thats a pretty nice size gap in two dyno's! Now I do not know the trannys in the cars if they were both manual or automatic. But this is a little weird seems like inside line drivers are a little crappy on the driving side too Motor trend got 4.3 0-60 and inside line only got 4.8. I dont kno seems like some numbers are a little off I hope Ford did not give out a car beefed up for the editors and we not see the advertised power. any thoughts?
*sigh*

Inside Line reported 395HP and 365 TQ at the wheels. With a 10% driveline loss factored in (which is somewhat conservative, btw), that gets you 439hp and 406tq at the crank.

Motor trends numbers are already corrected for driveline loss (I believe they also used 10%). In addition, MT is fairly well known for wringing better numbers out of most cars than their competitors. Whether this is due to driver skill or their willingness to beat the f*** out of the cars during testing (or both) is not known to me.
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Old 04-24-2010, 11:04 AM   #5
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OH maybe I misunderstood on the motor trend video review they just pulled the GT off the Dyno and gave those numbers but, they never specified if it was at the tires or the crank? Now Im thinking they put the crank numbers and just pulled it off the dyno and did not specify pretty tricky lol
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Old 04-24-2010, 01:18 PM   #6
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Perhaps this will shed some more light on the situation.

http://forums.motortrend.com/70/8141...-v6/index.html

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Old 04-24-2010, 01:59 PM   #7
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As people have stated, one is the actual number at the wheels and other is an estimated crank hp given a 10-15% driveline loss.

In any case, comparing dyno numbers from different dynos on different days is about as scientifically accurate as comparing different drag strip numbers from different tracks on different days, with different drivers.

Dyno numbers are useless in comparing unless on same dyno and best yet, same dyno, same day.
I've done a hundred or more dynos on the cars I've owned and helped dyno hundreds more. It's mostly a tuning tool to give you a base line, then see what mods did for you power wise.

The fact of the matter is every car that comes off the factory line has it's engine is tested to make sure it's making the proper minimum power.
They can't send out an engine if it does not meet the 412 hp rating they give.
Further, in this day and age of computer spec'd tolerances, most engine come off the line making very similar power.
Break in procedures, oil used, etc etc will result in a small variance in the amount of power the engine makes when fully broken in (which is really at least 5-6k miles).

But also in my experience, most cars with the same engine will make within 2-3% of each other (about 8-12 hp for the 5.0). Meaning you could dyno 20 cars on the same dyno on the same day with same weather conditions and you'd see the "weaker ones" doing say 380 rwhp and the "strongest one" doing 392 rwhp. But the majority of them will probably fall somewhere in the middle.

I've done this with 19 335i BMW's and there was 11 rwhp variance, but most were within 3-4 rwhp of each other stock if they had at least 2,000 miles on the odometer.


As for the "estimated" 430-440 crank hp coming from the 5.0 based on these dynos, I would say that's a bit optimistic.
Better chance it's a mixture of both the engine being underrated by a bit and the dynos being optimistic by a bit.

Again, keep in mind, the manufacturers have to rate the engines to what the MINIMUM will be. So you can expect that your engine will make at least 412 hp, but more often than not it's probably somewhere between 415-425 hp.

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Old 04-24-2010, 02:32 PM   #8
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The Motortrend numbers are rwhp X 1.15 = bhp. (Not rwhp / 0.85 like most)). They got 378 rwhp on the dyno. That was on the K&N Dyno and I believe the numbers on this dyno to be in the ballpark. Thats based on the V6 results on the same day. They got 268rwhp x 1.15 = 308 rwhp which is exactly what Ford got on the official SAE J1349 Test (They used the +/- 1% allowance to rate it at 305 bhp).

If you read the print version it states 15% Correction and their was a specific dyno article on their site that explained it all before the driving impression embargo was lifted on 3/29. The other posters link may go to that article.

About the Inside Line numbers. Those were got from a preproduction car slipped out of the press intro event and dynoed. It may have been a hand-built blueprinted engine. Not a production car. Also the dyno they used is suspect as it got 510 rwhp on a 2010 GT500.

Ford got 416/394 on the 5.0 during the SAE J1349 Test on RON 98 Fuel (Roughly the same as the 93 AKI we get at the pump). Their is some suspicion that that the engine may have a break-in mode and Ford may have tested the engine green.
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Old 04-24-2010, 06:16 PM   #9
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Some nice write ups guys appreciate the help bringing a little more light on the new 5.0 for me! Thanks Gene and everyone!
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Old 04-24-2010, 06:16 PM
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