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Old 01-17-2011, 02:04 PM   #1
Bosko
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Vehicle: 1971 Mach 1
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Question New Coyote engine in 1971 Mach 1??

I am new to this forum, so please excuse me if this has been a thread subject before.

I am in process of rebuilding a 1971 Mach 1 with a 351C and C4. My original plan was to stroke and bore the engine, and add aluminum intake and heads from Edelbrock, a 750 cfm 4bbl, and a more aggressive cam. Of course, roller timing gear, roller rockers, solid state ignition, etc. The goal is to get 500 hp+.

Now I am reading articles about the 2011 Coyote 5.0 litre, which pumps out about 415 hp out of the box. The kicker is the Coyote with the required ECM from Ford Racing will be about the same price as a quality rebuild of my 351C.

So now I am conflicted - rebuild the 351C, or buy a new modern engine that puts out bit less hp than my target, but would have modern technology and reliability.

Has anyone else considered the Coyote swap, or actually done one? Thoughts and experiences to help me make up my mind are appreciated!

Bosko
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Old 01-17-2011, 02:38 PM   #2
Derf00
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You'll have to consider a new transmission and a custom drive shaft (get the power from the new tranny to the old 71 diff). Most likely custom motor mounts or custom mounting point (if you take 5.0 L motor mounts and fit them to the bay of the 71).

That is what I know. Other info that might be needed...

If you're using the ECM from a 2011 you'll have to figure out how the fuel map will be affected (if at all) by the absence of ABS/Traction Control/Electric Steering, etc since the 2011 manipulates the fuel map based on input from those system. I'm not certain of this part since I haven't heard of swap yet but Lethal Performance (site sponser) can probably give you more insight.
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Old 01-17-2011, 02:47 PM   #3
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Um.....no, it won't cost remotely the same.

It will be neither cheap nor easy. It will require a great deal of front end modification to get a Coyote to fit, converting the entire front suspension, compromising handling etc, sheet metal fabrication and so forth.

Then you can get the engine and ECM, but you'll need a wiring harness. It's not setup for older cars, so you'll have sensors disconnected, constant engine codes in the ECM, and it will require work and money to get it to run right. Plus yeah, mating/fitting a transmission to it, which may require more sheetmetal fabbing of the trans tunnel to get the driveline angle right, plus a custom driveshaft.

Then there's going to be all the nickel and diming you ALWAYS run into on [projects like this. This hzs to be moved, that has to be resized, gotta change such and such.

I'd be amazed if you could swap a Coyote into that car and get the same power as rebuilding what you have for 2x as much money. In all likelihood it will cost more, 3x as much or higher. Rebuilding what you have into something healthy and getting it running with good power is going to be WAY cheaper.
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Old 01-17-2011, 04:51 PM   #4
suicide67
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I agree with all of the above, but it is a badass motor and for not that much money. I saw it in the catalog and couldn't believe it.
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Old 01-17-2011, 05:06 PM   #5
Bosko
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Great comments guys! Let's keep the debate going.

I agree about the transmission. If get the Coyote engine the I would also try to install the new 6R80 automatic transmission. it is smaller and lighter than the C4.

The ECM from Ford Racing is for custom installations. It will not work in the 2011 Mustang. Comes complete with wiring harnbess. I think this alleviates one concern in that the ECM should not require minimal custom wiring, and has everything it needs to not be continuously generating engine codes.

The installation of the engine will be a challenge. Engine and tranny mounts I think I can work through, but cooling, power steering, alternator, and air conditioning will be challenging to say the least (yeah, I said air conditioning. This is Texas, and I do want to drive the car).
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Old 01-17-2011, 05:25 PM   #6
1971mach1
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I think you'll have to get rid of the shock towers to get the new 5.0 to fit.
The 2009 4.6L won't even fit, the heads are too wide. The 5.0 has to be about the same width (or maybe bigger).
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Old 01-17-2011, 07:04 PM   #7
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how much u looking to spend, how handy are you, can u fabricate? if not, wait till a kit comes out. Im sure there are plenty of teams putting together the things youll need. Or if you are a rockerfeller, get R done
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Old 01-17-2011, 10:05 PM   #8
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So you can get one of those engines for less than $6k? You dont really need aluminum heads on a Cleveland, the 4V heads work good, and a 408 ci stroker kit would really make them breathe. One thing you can do with them is fill in the dead spot on the intake port floor, no need to port them. 500hp isnt that hard with a Cleveland. Believe me, the Cleveland will make silly power with stock parts, mostly a cam swap, intake and exhaust and you are good to go. Rebuild the bottom end with good pieces and it will live a long time.

This is what you have to do to get a mod motor in any Mustang 64-73. Figure another $5k-$10k depending on how much of it you can do yourself.
Click the image to open in full size.


After just getting it in there you still need to do all the wiring, transmission, exhaust, and accessories. Good luck. In my honest opinion it isnt worth the effort and expense to put a mod motor in one of these cars. The cost is too high for the paltry amount of power you get from them. It may seem like a lot of power, but really it isnt that much for the money you are going to spend on it. You can put EFI and a blower on a 351C for less money.

If you want to spend the kind of money you are talking about, why not just get a 460 block, stroke it to 500+ci and slap some Boss9 heads on it? It would make scads more power, be really freakin cool, and would still probably be cheaper than stuffing a mod motor in, despite the heads being $5k on their own. The best part about a 460 block is you can use factory mounts and stuff to put it in there.

But hey its your $20k if you want to spend it.
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Old 01-18-2011, 12:04 AM   #9
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I would not buy a brand new engine from anyone i would wait 5 years let them work the bugs out of it.If it was me i would build up what you have if I'm replacing it would be a efi 351w or a big block.I use to be a ford tech you don't want to work on a mod motor most cars you gotta pull the engine to get a head off its a pain.A normal small block and big block you can pull the heads with it in the car in a few hours.Thumpin the boss9 heads would take notching or removing the shock towers to fit.The p51 heads are a step above the scj heads and fit just fine.
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Old 01-18-2011, 01:38 AM   #10
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We are a new sponsor to the forum. Recently, we are seeing more mod motors going into classic Mustangs. Total Cost Involved apparently has a setup for exactly this. Check them out and see if they have any experience on the cost factor.

As for the tranny, check out our new product - the KEISLER Rallye Sport RS 5-Speed. We have complete PerfectFit kits for classic Mustang '64-1/2 through '73 for use with all small blocks, Cleveland, FE, 381 series, and all mod motor variants 4.6/5.0/5.4, etc. Here is the kit for automatic equipped cars. You can use the factory mechanical linkage, or our hydraulic clutch actuator. Additionally, you can use aftermarket cable clutch actuators.

For the Coyote 5.0 I recommend running the 500 torque RS500 for $2595 complete with driveshaft. For a regular 4.6 mod motor '96-up, 289/302/347 you are fine with our RS400 for $2295 complete with driveshaft. We also have bare units starting at $1499 for the RS400.

If you run automatics, we have 4R70W and AODE, complete with fully preprogrammed standalone tranny controllers and harnesses. Our Simple Shift Controller allows you to make adjustments right on the controller box. The standard controller has Sport and Normal dual mode switch, standard no extra cost. Both controllers are available with our Paddle Shifter w/ Intellegent Display (wireless, easy hookup). And if you run a EFI system like FAST, you can display your engine data on the display as well.

With the push for better driveability, less weight and more power:weight ratio, it's easy to understand why you'd want a late model engine. Please post what ever you find on here for all of us to see.

Thanks!

Shafi Keisler
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Old 01-18-2011, 01:38 AM
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1971, 50, 66, 71, bullitt, coyote, engine, mach, mustang, rims, sale, shock, suspension, swap, towers, width

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