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Best Performance out of 2006 Mustang GT without forced induction?

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Old 06-10-2013, 04:12 PM   #1
deltafool117
 
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Default Best Performance out of 2006 Mustang GT without forced induction?

So I'm no stranger to mustang performance but I haven't dipped my toe in too far towards the horsepower side of things, I've focused mostly on suspension mods but I have finished those up and am ready to concentrate on horsepower.

Here is the deal though, I plan on keeping my mustang for a long time (hopefully 20+ years) and everywhere I have read says that if you go over 450 HP, your mustang is on borrowed time (something about the connecting rods being the weak point?). So basically, I don't want forced induction...there is one forced induction kit (Roush M-90) I believe that puts the mustang at 435 HP...but that's at the wheel, at the crank it is probably over that 450 i mentioned.

It's a highway cruising/roadtrip car as well, so that eliminates gears. Since mines an 06, it came with the 3.55s and I'm pretty happy with those. Unless someone convinces me that the 3.77's aren't too bad on the mpgs?

Also I don't want an x pipe, I'm more into the throaty, muscle car noise then the racer noise. I like my H-pipe!

What is done:
Underdrive Pulley
JLT CAI (the older one, not the new series 3)
Bassani cat-back exhaust (cylinder muffler, not the box)

SCT X3 Tuner (NOTE: I bought used, so I do not have BAMA custom tunes for life, I am still only manually tuning via the strategy tune menu)

I also found a set of used JBA shorties for a really good price, just had to buy new gaskets. I have not installed yet...


ANYWAY. I want OPINIONS.

I know about most of the bolt ons and semi bolt ons (cams) but...

What order should I buy and install the parts (over time, I have to save up for each part...)??
How much power can I expect to get minus nitrous and FI??
Ford Racing Hot Rod Cams vs Comp Cams??
Heads?? ( I know next to nothing on this topic)
Any other bits and pieces you can think of ???

Thanks! I feel bad starting a new thread on this but it's hard to find stuff on maxing out non forced induction wise. If you even use the word supercharger or Forced induction, searches give you all that junk as well...
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Old 06-10-2013, 04:29 PM   #2
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4.10s, LONGTUBES (don't waste a dime on those shorties), cams, heads. That should be about all really unless you throw on some nitrous. Everyone says don't think about throttle body until you're F/I. By then you'd have spent enough to get a Vortech kit from Brenspeed or AM for $3999.00 and call it a day.

I basically have the same mods you have minus the UDP's and put down 275HP/293TQ to the wheels if that gives you an idea of how much you really have to put into the car to make HP without F/I.

Last edited by Ricardo; 06-10-2013 at 04:32 PM.
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Old 06-10-2013, 06:03 PM   #3
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Yeah I realize without FI it's a steep hill to climb. But the goal is more power, not major power.

If I can end up with with 350+ at the wheel (about 80 over stock?) I would be pretty happy.
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Old 06-10-2013, 06:09 PM   #4
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Search your car for junk you don't need, lose 50 lbs. and you'll go faster. It's a 3.73 to 1 unless you're in Ukraine with a 3.77 to 1. I put a 4.10 in a V6 4.0 because i'm insane but the sane part of me could see the fuel gage move. 3.73 are at the fun point because it's harder to see the needle move. It's better to go lower if you got the torque to overcome the start-up. I believe CJ's have low 3-.08/.15/.31? That's how they get to 200+. Imagine a KR-500 with a 4.10 doing 200+ at 10,000 RPM. It's highway cruise speed - my 5.0 with 6 sp and 3.73 is 2000 for 60 or higher rpm with a 4.10 and lower milage per gallon.
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Old 06-10-2013, 08:19 PM   #5
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But my shaker subsssszzz
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Old 06-10-2013, 09:21 PM   #6
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So do you want 350+ RWHP, or do you want good gas mileage for your road trip car. You're not getting both! I think you'd be perfectly fine with 3.73 gears. I have the 3.55s as well and even at highway speed my RPMs are fairly low.

But you can get to around 350 with cams, intake, and LTs. Heads are the next step but they're gonna cost you.
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Old 06-10-2013, 10:15 PM   #7
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Like $3K or more to PnC the heads, mill .30 and new head bolts $300. I don't think it's good to reuse old head bolts? F/I if your going to junk it later or you don't need it to be dependable. 4.6 motors have an available Ford Racing intake (similar to the Boss) that might be a bridge to more hp without F/I but if the runners are short might raise RPM to dangerous levels. I also find the CAI used on the bullet model was best and had a sealed tub that kept hot engine air out and brought cool grill air in. Those four cam 5.0's have just eclipsed everything a 4.6 could be without forged internals and F/I with exotic pulleys.
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Old 06-11-2013, 01:37 AM   #8
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Don't fear the gear! I was happy for 3 years with my 3.55's saying I like the way they feel. Until I drive a 4.10 gt! Have taken it on many road trips 150 miles plus and get about 1-2 mpg less. The low end is sooo worth it not only improving mpg in the city slightly. Cams, long tubes, Cai tune, gears, under drive pulleys, delete plates OR a frpp intake manifold. Aluminum driveshaft.. Should hit close to 80 over stock. Or at least make it fast enough to hold you over for a while without FI. Also you NEED a Brenspeed or bama tune not one you wrote manually yourself. It will make a big difference no doubt as well as being safer. Note that shorty headers will not really do anything for hp

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Old 06-11-2013, 04:37 PM   #9
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FWIW, the 450 figure is at the wheels. You'll not get anywhere close to that with bolt ons. In all honesty, the "safety" is in tune. You can grenade a motor with a poorly written tune without ever turning a wrench.

If you are deadset against FI - tune, CAI, gears, cams, LTs, UDP, delete plates, ditch the cats. That should get you to 315-325 at the wheels. There's not much more to be had with bolt ons after those mods....forget TB and heads unless you're going big FI.

EDIT - by the time you buy all that, you're close to the cost of FI, with more power and stock reliability (assuming a good tune).
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Old 06-11-2013, 06:28 PM   #10
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Like other's have said, go with the 4.10's. You'll be very happy you did. I have driven mine on the freeway plenty of times, and have never felt I made a mistake with 4.10's. It's not the old days where people only had 4 speeds, and 4.10's screamed on the freeway. The car pulls so much better once you change the gear ratio.
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Old 06-11-2013, 06:34 PM   #11
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It sounds like you've been turned off to forced induction without really knowing why. That M90 kit you mentioned is plenty safe for the stock engine with the supplied tune, and at one point was even installed on factory Mustangs with a warranty. There are a number of other folks here who are running forced induction past what is generally considered safe horsepower numbers because they have a good tune for it. Don't rule out all the possibilities just yet.
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Old 06-11-2013, 07:01 PM   #12
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^ That.

And FI is reliable as a DD.
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Old 06-11-2013, 07:12 PM   #13
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I'm going to chime in and say that longtubes might not be the best idea for a N/A car. I just installed Kooks LTs on my car with a Roush CAI/Bama tune, Roush UDPs, and aluminum driveshaft. I no longer have the kick in the low end (below 3-3.5K RPMs) that I did before. Sure, it takes off like a raped ape above that, but with my Roush Extremes and the Kooks catted X pipe, it's quite noisy once I get to that range. And for a street driven car, I'm not always above 3-4K RPMs.

I miss that low end punch, so much so that I plan on putting BBK shorty tuned length headers on with the stock H pipe, and calling my exhaust done. (Look for virtually brand new Kooks LTs with catted X to be for sale soon haha).

I originally wanted to get FRPP Hot Rod cams, but from what I read, those also don't do so well in the low end, and I'm afraid to do anything else that will take away from my low end torque. I know people will tell you LTs or nothing, but all I know is that even if a dyno sheet may say that I have more HP now with the Kooks, I prefer how it drove before the headers. I probably wouldn't have put shorties on to begin with, but after my learning experience with LTs, I plan on putting them on there. Live and learn I suppose.
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Old 06-12-2013, 07:29 AM   #14
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Look at a set of Kooks longtubes and H-pipe to pick up some nice gains. Also a set of hot rod cams and Steeda charge motion deletes. The Comp Cams NSR cam are very comparable as well. If you want to dig a little deeper I have heard great things about the new FRPP intake as well. Good luck!

Esch : You need to have a new tune written with low end torque emphasized. Kooks L/T's for your car should make it a beast from 2000 and up, definitely try some different tunes before you take them off. Also the H/R cams are a great match for a street car.
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Old 06-13-2013, 06:49 AM   #15
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Long time ago, I was determined to stay NA like you. However, Over time I found it to be a waste of time and money. FYI, your goal is possible...My '07 GT was able to get 355 RWHP with... Kooks Long Tubes, Kooks High flow Catted H Pipe, Steeda Pulleys, Delete Plates, FRPP 62mm Throttle Body, C&L Cold Air Kit, 94 Octane Dyno Tune, FRPP HotRod Cams and installed 4:10 gears to keep my low end. Good luck and have fun !!
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Old 06-13-2013, 08:29 AM   #16
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I have seen cars dyno in the at 300 rwhp with only a tillman tune, CAI, axle back exhaust and some underdrive pulleys. Here is one:
Now combine some stepped headers, charge motion delete plates, the FRRP manifold, a 62MM tb and another really good tune and I think you could be at or very close to 350 RWHP.

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Old 06-13-2013, 12:46 PM   #17
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I know youre looking for NA, but FI is really the best way to make power. Like people have said, reliability is all in the tune.

My 07 has been supercharged for over 3 years and probably 20k (maybe closer to 30k) miles now. Im Brenspeed tuned with a few other goodies and my boost gauge shows 12psi. Never been near a dyno, but Brenspeed shows the base HO kit good for 460-480 RWHP.
Started off as a daily driver and stayed that way for probably a year after the blower. Im generally easy on it for everyday driving, but I do get into boost at least once because its a rush. I have pushed it to the limits a few times too. Have yet to have any issues with the motor.
Plus you can drive all day without touching boost. Ive taken her on several 200-400 mile road trips and she can average 27-28 mpg cruising on the highway. Averages 19-20 mpg otherwise. Hand calculated.
No problems at all with the car (except for the crap transmission, but thats been since day one). I do take very good care of it and probably waste money on the frequency of my maintenance.
If you get a good tune from a reputable tuner, keep an eye on your vehicles systems, and keep it maintained, you should not have anything to worry about with FI.
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Old 06-13-2013, 11:21 PM   #18
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I was told by a very reliable tuner that these 3v engines are can sustain 450 HP max before they start having potential issues with internal engine reliability. Namely the rods. If you are looking to add boost in the future you may want to just invest in a built short block. Either naturally aspirated or forced induction you know the engine can handle it. Because honestly what fun is it if you arent sure the short block can take whatever you throw at it.

I personally want around 320 RWHP and 350 ft lb of torque and I will be good. The trans and diff can live a long and happy life at those power levels in stock trim.
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Old 06-14-2013, 03:14 AM   #19
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I had pretty much all the bolts ons before I installed the m90 blower. Cams did cause me to lose some low end torque and I have 4.10 gears. I was not happy about it but those mods did make my car faster at the track. Adding the blower gave the car the punch I was looking for. If I were to do it again, I would forego the cams. Longtubes are a great NA mod IMO. They made my car two tenths quicker at the track and sound like a beast.
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Old 06-15-2013, 06:26 AM   #20
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As was mentioned u can blow your motor with just a tune. FI is reliable and has been for me (4 years). The key is if your car doesn't seem right call your tuner right away. You can ask the good folks here about your problem but always call them even if your not tuned for FI. And make sure customer service is reliable with the tuner u choose. Brenspeed is second to none in opinion.

As far as mods. You can do all that and still have the bug for more. If u have an auto I'd get a torque convertor. Second best mod for butt Dyno!! If u have 355 then I'd stick with those. 373 isn't enough to notice.

Just keep in mind a motor can pop without a supercharger. Less likely sure but it has happened. Stick with reliable tuners like brenspeed and you will be fine. Especially if we change your mind on FI. There r guys running 500 at the and have been for awhile and still running strong. Diabolical is one that comes to mind
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Old 06-15-2013, 06:26 AM
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