angrystick87

I just got back from the BMW weekend/school at Virginia International Speedway where I am happy to report I saw 4 fox mustangs. So I'm now ready to step up from the auto-x level and get some track time. After taking 7 laps with a Canadian instructor in his M3 Euro I realized I have a long row to hoe. How do I get this car to turn and stick???!!! I drive a:
87 gt (SM in auto x)
lowered/sport springs
sub frame connectors
306
3:73 limited slip

What safety items are a must?
What would you recommend for minimum equipment?
How do you balance out over steer at high speeds?
How do you balance a fox for that matter?
Should I start with street or race tires?
any tips?
any shortcuts?

thanks for your time
jp

David_K

very first thing you need is a set of hoosier R6 tires and a set of Pagid race pads and youll be god to go. make sure you use a race brake fluid as well.

tntcobra

Yeah, that track stuff can be addicting. Looking at your sig, you're off to a good start. The good news is that Fox Mustangs can be made to handle and handle well. The bad news is that it'll take some work & money!

My first response is that since you're "new" to track events, drive the car the way it is for a few more. Sometimes just driving better can make a car handle better. For doing DE type track events, there are not many "required" items. Basically a safe car with a stock seat belt is fine.

But when you're ready to make some changes - are your springs "lowering" or "performance" springs? So many companies that make Mustang springs are all about slamming the car & don't care about performance. Second to that would be a quality set of shocks/struts - Koni, Tokico, Bilstein - one of the 3 & you'll be fine. The adjustables can be nice but only if you know how to adjust them. I have a set of Bils on my '96 and never regretted it.

After that, you'll need to look at some big ticket things - better control arms, one of the various systems for locating the rear axle (torque arm, panhard, Steeda's 5 link, etc.) and eventually, a K-member up front that relocates the control arm pickup points.

Somewhere along the way, you'll want to look at improving the brakes as well. At least a rear disk conversion if not a full 5 lug swap. In my car I've had good luck with Hawk pads & ATE fluid but there are lots of choices on the market and most are reputable.

tntcobra

As far as tires, that's always a debate. Some believe you should jump right to R comps to learn them from the start. Others believe the R comp tires have too small a "forgiveness" window - they hang on great, but when they let go, you're in trouble. Both points have merit. Since the track events are about driver education, not speed, I lean more to a performance street tire, at least initially. As you're learning, you are understandably harder on tires. Street tires are just cheaper. And there are some good "crossover" tires like Falken & Hankook that are reasonable and give respectable performance.

No shortcuts - just seat time! There are some really good books that help to explain the concepts of performance driving. Understanding what the car is doing, what the track needs, and how it's the little things that add up to a fast lap really help. "Going Faster" is more or less written by Skip Barber and has some good information on learning & seeing a line, braking technique, really everything. Some items are written more toward open wheel cars, but it's still good info.

Get out & have fun. It's easy and common for new drivers to want to improve the car. There are better improvements that will yield larger gains by working on the driver.

angrystick87

first off- thanks for taking the time to respond, its nice to see some stangers who aren't focused on straight line racing

Tires: Because I have been helping out the BMW M3 guys I have a great supply of heat cycled hoosier R tires, but am feeling like I need to revert back to a street tire. I need a tire that will talk to me, give some indication of what its doing, by the time the Hoosiers start to squak its to late and I'm around. I want to learn how to correctly load up a suspention. In auto-x the runs are so quick and the cornering is so tight I feel like I'm either drifting (overstear) or pushing (understeer)

Suspention: I'm not sure if I have a sport springs or lowering springs. My car is stiff as a board, has upgrated sway arms, but I really should take them out to see.

Saftey: should i focus on a cage, seats, belts or everything. I love my car, and have confidence that I can drive, but still have a "don't want to die" attitude. VIR is an extremely fast raceway, 155-165 on backstretch (in a lightweight M3) If I have to put it in the bushes I want to make sure I walk away to run another day.

Brakes: Do the sn-95 brakes bolt up to the rear of my fox? would you hit the track with drums in the rear?

Weight: Would you relocate the battery?, strip the inside? what could I material could I replace the glass with?

Thanks guys
jp

David_K

you can replace glass with lexan but the the car is no longer street legal. i would relocate the battery and i would definatly use R compund tires all using street tires will do is give you more confidence with your car and your more likely to do stupid **** on the street.

tntcobra

RE the safety concern, the general thought is that you should not have a full harness without at least a 4 point bar. Basically, don't do one without the other. And the stock Fox seats are lousy on their best day. For track driving, a quality and proper fit seat makes a big difference. Of course, cost is also a big factor there.
I don't know if the Fox is even capable, but I would not want to try to repeatedly slow the car from 150 with drum brakes. Even if you can get pads that would survive, the heat put into the drums would be extreme and dangerous. RE the SN-95 discs on a Fox, I personally have not done the swap, but I understand it's easier to just swap the entire rear from a 94-98 car. Of course the best choice is the Cobra, but even the '94 V6 had better rear brakes than the Fox cars. Of course there are several companies selling brake conversion kits so you could keep your stock rear. Remember too that the 13" Cobra front brakes must have 17 inch wheels. Sure, it looks good, but tires just got a lot more expensive!

Weight reduction does wonders. And it's amazing how it can add up. One number I heard along the way was that losing every 6 pounds was like adding 1 hp. If that's true, 300 pounds = 50 hp.
Some of what you will do depends on if the car will be street driven or dedicated track. ANYTHING to remove weight and move toward a 50/50 distribution will improve performance & handling. Well, anything but removing the engine! Start with the larger, more obvious - AC, radio, rear seat, carpet, headliner, sound deadening, etc. As an example, my current track toy is an '87 325i BMW. I removed the tar just from the trunk of that car - it was good for almost 40 pounds. That's huge. Most race seats are lighter than stock seats so shop accordingly. After that, it starts to get harder to slim down. I've heard of hardcore racers spending hours tracing the wiring harness to remove any unnecessary length, connectors, or tape just to save a few pounds more.

That K-member mentioned before would help with this in 2 regards. First, they are generally lighter than stock. Second, if you opt for the relocation type, you (in effect) change you wheelbase and engine location. That changes weight distribution which helps handling. See how it all comes back together?

Anyway, at some point with all of these changes, the car will not be suitable for street driving so plan accordingly.

Regardless, enjoy the track!

itbcapri

I run a Fox bodied 2.3L SCCA car. A Panhard bar is a must if you ask me-I installed a Maximum Motorsports bar and the handling was greatly improved. Lots of tire choices out there-I usually run Toyo Proxes DOT race tires since they last longer than most. I'm limited to upgrades in ITB class, but the car runs very good now.

angrystick87

you guys are awesome

Over the past week I have done a bunch of brainstorming and have developed a new "have to have" for the track

1. new seats/4or5 point belts
2. cage, most likley bolt in due to cost
3. BRAKES, I have to get rid of those drums or figure out a way to vent them so they don't heat up on the first lap
4. ME, I need to read up, flush out the Macho bullsh&$ in order to train my brain for the track

lots of great ideas, thanks a million. more to come
jp

thnkfast

I had the Maximum Motorsports "Road and Track" kit put in my car and I'm really happy with it. The kit contains most of the before mentioned parts. I'm in the process of putting in a cage and harnesses, after seeing some pretty bad wrecks at a couple of HPDE's. I'm pretty new to this, but would recommend making your car stop and turn before making it go faster. Here's a pic.

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