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How much $$$ to compete w/ new M3 or S4 in the twisties?

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Old 03-26-2008, 09:01 PM   #1
crazystylin
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Default How much $$$ to compete w/ new M3 or S4 in the twisties?

INSTRUCTIONS: This is a two part pop quiz. Please answer questions 1 & 2, and include war stories if you have them that substantiate your answers.

Pop Quiz Question # 1: Which of the below options, at minimum, isneeded to get an '05 stang on 20" rims to compete n' beat late model porsches, Audi S Series, or BMW M seriesin the twisties.

Will Option #1 do it: (I currently have this.)
1. Lowering Springs (Ford Racing springs)
2. Set of nice rubber 245front/275 rear (Nitto Extremes)

Will Option #2 do it:
1. All the above
2.Rear Sway bar
3.Lower control arms

Will Option #3 do it:
1.All the above
2. Upgraded shocks (ie. Tokico D-specs)
3.Adjustable Panhard Bar

Pop Quiz Question # 2: Which of the above options, at minimum, is needed to get an '05 stang on 20" rims to compete n' beat modified import class rides (Honda, Acura, Nissan Z's & Infinity's)in the twisties.

I just don't want to get burned by a honda in some hair pins. I couldn't look at myself in the mirror afterwards. LOL.
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Old 03-27-2008, 08:18 AM   #2
timothyrw
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Default RE: How much $$$ to compete w/ new M3 or S4 in the twisties?

the simple answer is that you can't, and at minimum, you need to do everything.

have you ever driven an m3 or any bmw for that manner?

i have, and the mustang will never have the handling feel of an m3.
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Old 03-27-2008, 11:58 AM   #3
crazystylin
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Default RE: How much $$$ to compete w/ new M3 or S4 in the twisties?

My other car is a mercedes, but not the sport version. I would think lowering with some sway bar action would get the mustang to compete in clover leaf freeway passes or in the mountains.

What about modded imports?
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Old 03-27-2008, 02:03 PM   #4
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Default RE: How much $$$ to compete w/ new M3 or S4 in the twisties?

No way will you be able to beat a M3 or Audiin the twisties with our cars.with option 3 you will be able to keep up with them.
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Old 03-27-2008, 02:52 PM   #5
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Default RE: How much $$$ to compete w/ new M3 or S4 in the twisties?

yeah... it's not gonna happen. if you change every single suspension component, do an IRS swap, and have everything custom spec'd and tuned by a pro, you might be able to keep up.

for modded imports, you'll probably at leastneed all that you listed.
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Old 03-27-2008, 05:51 PM   #6
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Default RE: How much $$$ to compete w/ new M3 or S4 in the twisties?

I checked and in Canada the new BMW M3 is almost 3 times the price of a Mustang GT so they better providesomething for the money and the new M3 is a pretty awsome car.

If we come up against one during the track days this year I'll let you know how the lap times compare.
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Old 03-27-2008, 06:18 PM   #7
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Default RE: How much $$$ to compete w/ new M3 or S4 in the twisties?

Have you guys seen this video? I don't think that is imposible what you want.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezJU1nNGm9k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdpkiHoUUnc
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Old 03-27-2008, 07:49 PM   #8
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Default RE: How much $$$ to compete w/ new M3 or S4 in the twisties?

Really neat. It has been a long time since I've been to Mt Tremblant and that was as a spectator.

The Mustang was certainly the fastest car on the track in the second one. It would be nice to know what the relative skill levels were of the Mustang & M3 drivers.

MaybeI should let my brother out of his promise to not go after Porsches and Corvettes!
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Old 03-27-2008, 07:59 PM   #9
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Default RE: How much $$$ to compete w/ new M3 or S4 in the twisties?

I think some of you naysayersare selling the stang a little short. I don't want argue the point, I really have no idea how well an M3 or S4 handles. But let me ask you a question - how would a C6 Corvette stack up against them? I suspect pretty well.

On this very forum, not more than a month ago, one of our esteemed members who is a road racer (don't remember the screen name) posted a video of himself chasing down vetts on a track. His car is not heavily modified although not stock, and he was hanging with the vettes just fine. His main advantage was in braking, he has a big brake kit installed. And...before you go saying the drivers must be poor...they were all instructors. Wish I could find that post.
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Old 03-27-2008, 10:17 PM   #10
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Default RE: How much $$$ to compete w/ new M3 or S4 in the twisties?

the mustang is a fantastic car for the price.

the corvette is also afantastic car for the price.

but handling has never been eitherone of their strong points. i mean, it's all relative (that is to say, they both handle "well") but the m3is often the benchmark, the pinnacle, of handling for premium auto makers.

sure, you can set up a mustang as a competenttrack car with gobs of money. but can you drivethat same cararound pot-holed roads and not break your teeth, not get stuck on speed bumps?

the m3 comes track ready and yet isalso aconsumate daily driver.

these comments from insideline should yield some perspective:

In our book, the 2008 BMW M3's damping setting of Comfort is the equivalent of a BMW 3 Series with a Sport Package suspension. In this softest setting, you'll be aware of road imperfections, but only the worst of them will be jarring. The Normal setting brings you the ride harshness of, say, a 2007 Porsche 911 GT3, a car that only gets a pass from us because it's so damned good at the track that we'll endure the occasional punishment with a toothy grin. Finally, Sport means exactly that, as it's meant for the racetrack. It's too abusive for anything but a billiard-smooth surface, which rarely occurs in nature (well, maybe the autobahn).
---
Yet the M3's talents run deeper than drag racing. As our test-driver says, "One of the fastest production cars we've tested through the slalom. Very easy to maintain control at the limit. Steering delivers excellent feel and response for the inputs given." Stitch together a run free of tipped-over cones and the result is a speed of 73 mph, a record for a car that's in volume production. Skid pad? The BMW M3 with its weight distribution of 51 percent front/49 percent rear plus a trick electronically controlled rear differential produces levels of grip you expect from a sports car, with a performance of 0.95g in lateral acceleration.
---
The new 2008 BMW M3 possesses a range of talent that few other automobiles can rival. On one hand, it drives like any other BMW 3 Series. But pull its hair, and the M3 transforms itself into a 400-hp hypercar. Like a champion barrel-racing horse, the M3 responds favorably to having its butt whipped once in a while.

Through its own engineering magic, BMW has somehow managed to give this everyday coupe the feel of a low-volume specialty car like the Porsche 911, only with a $50,000 discount.
---
Nevertheless, the extroverted 2008 BMW M3 Coupe wins both for its undeniable dominance on the test track and an incongruous ability to do so while remaining perfectly capable as an everyday car. Toss in a track day or an afternoon on any of the roads of which we're so fond, and the Audi S5 begins to feel slightly out of place.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=125265
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Old 03-28-2008, 09:46 AM   #11
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Default RE: How much $$$ to compete w/ new M3 or S4 in the twisties?

Quote:
ORIGINAL: crazystylin

Pop Quiz Question # 1: Which of the below options, at minimum, isneeded to get an '05 stang on 20" rims to compete n' beat late model porsches, Audi S Series, or BMW M seriesin the twisties.

Will Option #1 do it: (I currently have this.)
1. Lowering Springs (Ford Racing springs)
2. Set of nice rubber 245front/275 rear (Nitto Extremes)

Will Option #2 do it:
1. All the above
2.Rear Sway bar
3.Lower control arms

Will Option #3 do it:
1.All the above
2. Upgraded shocks (ie. Tokico D-specs)
3.Adjustable Panhard Bar

Pop Quiz Question # 2: Which of the above options, at minimum, is needed to get an '05 stang on 20" rims to compete n' beat modified import class rides (Honda, Acura, Nissan Z's & Infinity's)in the twisties.

I just don't want to get burned by a honda in some hair pins. I couldn't look at myself in the mirror afterwards. LOL.
PQ#1 All three options and then some. If you're at all serious about handling/cornering, you'll find that Item 1 in Option 1 already requires Option 3. IMO, LCAs belong in a separate Option 4 (you don't say whether it's front or rear LCAs, or whether wheel hop is atall an issue). Plus careful selection of parts where choice exists. Plus at the very leastsome instructed autocross running if you haven't done at least that already (nobody is as good from the get-go as they'd like to believe). Plus testing and careful tuning to optimize everything to your driving. You see, it's not just the car that you need to optimize. That gives you potential, not guarantees. It's a car-road-driver system that you're tinkering with, so you need to investigate all three (though you can't do much about the road besides choosing a different one). After all that, pick your times/places/battles carefully.

PQ#2 Same deal as PQ#1 but with a wider range of opponents and their vehicle capabilities. A legitimate but still street-driveable SCCA Solo Street Mod Honda would have at least your level of suspension and wheel/tire upgrading,and probably more power. At 1500 lbs less weight, he'd have you for a snack. Don't pick that fight, especially if you don't recognize the tires it's running on. Newbie Fast-n-Furious wanna-be's = why bother?


On the street, the best that you should be shooting for anyway is to briefly make the guy in the upmarket or heavily modified car work harder than he expected to have to. If you can't get it done in the first couple of turns, stretching it out any longer is just foolish (nothing to gain, everything to lose). He'll realize it, too.

It's pretty easy to get a S197 to corner at high 0.8x/low-mid 0.9x lateral g's and slalom upwards of 70 mph when you're out in the middle of an autocross lot or on a road course. It's much more difficult to reliably do that when curbs, trees, utility poles, ditches, and the possibility of oncoming trafficare as close as they are in most street driving.

What I've observed is that the vast majority of people do not drive in a way that puts them beyond about 0.3 lateral g, ever. A few make it to 0.5g, and 0.7g driving is enough to run away from virtually everybody, nearly anywhere(keep in mind that nobody goes up there unless they are actively trying).


FWIW, the biggest gains come from driver seat time. Next is tires/wheels. Then everything else.


Norm
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Old 03-28-2008, 07:52 PM   #12
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Default RE: How much $$$ to compete w/ new M3 or S4 in the twisties?

Yes, it's the driver. Learn to drive very well and you'd be surprised how you can fair against much more expensive competition. My Local autocross champ won in an 05 GT vs. the 350z's, S2000s, STIsof the world.
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Old 03-29-2008, 04:05 PM   #13
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Default RE: How much $$$ to compete w/ new M3 or S4 in the twisties?

I really love these sorts of posts!

I think you could get a mustang to handle excelently butyour going to need serious comfort compromises. The thing about the C6 and the M3 are that they are both track ready cars with an excelent compromise between handling and comfort. Thats how they have been set up from the factory.
It would be difficult, if not impossibe to achieve that excelet compromise with a mustang just because that is not how it was designed

There is both a mustang and a C6 Vette in our garage and i have been working with the mustangs suspension.
I have seriously impoved it with some of the upgrades you mentioned above andothersbut when i switch into the vette, there is something about the way it feels when you drive it and shove it into corners that the mustang just cannot compare with.

Is it possibe to beat a C6 or M3 with a mustang, sure i think so, look at the griggs mustang.It reached 1.5g's in one of their online video's. But i believe the griggs car that achieved that is only a track car, you have to buy it with a trailor just to take it anywhere.quite impractical in my opinion : ).

The Basic thingsi would change about my carin making itFEEL(in my opinion, just as important as how many g's you can pull)and handle in a way that i would enjoy wouldbe to do the following:

Tires & Rims >Not Staggered
- This in my opinion is the most important. It completley changes the responsiveness, conering ability and feel of your car. My biggest suggestion that i learned the hard way is to buy rims and tires that suit eachother. Dont buy the biggest tire you can cram onto a 8" rim. Buy a 9.5" or 10" rim and buy a suttable size tire that will give you plenty of sidewall support and a minimal amont of tread distortion. That is my biggest suggestionin making the steering precise and repsonsive which iscertainly what the C6 has. Any ways.....
Front & Rear Sway
Shocks/Struts
Springs
Camber Plates
PHB & Brace
Front Control arm bushings & relo
Bump Steer
And then tune your car, set it up in a way that feels good to you. You can change alot about your cars handling just tweaking and tuning parts you already have.

Even though i know this list would probobly not hold up to a M3 or C6 and there is alot more you could do,it would deffinatley be a great drive. I think that you should strive for great handling and setup your car to were you love the feel and experience it gives you. Even though mymustang does not handle like our C6, i still get a big smile when i take a corner or a round about in my car.

A video on inside line did the real basics. They did D-Specs, Eibach Pro-Kit Springs, Progressive Front and Rear Sways, Rims & 275's.They were able to corner at .96g's with just these mods on the skid pad.

Lastly, i certainly agree with Norm that the biggest gains come from the drivers seat!

Hunter
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Old 03-29-2008, 06:31 PM   #14
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Default RE: How much $$$ to compete w/ new M3 or S4 in the twisties?

You must be either a staff writer or a BMW salesman. Nice click and paste...sounds like a BMW advertizement, anyway. (LOL...just giving you a hard time)
I've been driving my 07 GT for about15 mos.now, and have 52K mi on it. I drive hwy 101 about 70mi every day, northof Santa Barbara. Anyone familiar with this stretch of road knows the turns at Gaviota, and Three Bridges; the turns just south of Buelleton. Also the San Marcos pass. I have yet to have anyone in anything run with me through these turns including a guy I know who races his R1 Yamaha (and a few other unsuspecting bikers). He went in ahead of me one morning, I passed him through the turns. When he cought me, all he could do was shake his head and give me the thumbs up. Vettes, Carerras, M3's, AMG's, it hasn't mattered...yet. (I know it's coming)Up-hill north bound going up Nojoqui Grade, a guy in a C5 Z06 took off and left me sitting, untill we got to the corners. He was long gone in my mirror by the time we got to the top, pushing fourth (around 130). I especially go after the coveted M3's. Usually it's a kill, but some have hung in there. Speeds through these turns can be from 90 to 130+. The 08 with it's 400hp is going to be another story, though.
Now here's the kicker. This is my DD Mustang. My girlfriend loves is, and says it's very comfortable.('course, she drives a little MR2 which rides like a buck board) I prefer the firm ride, but it's no where near harsh. Setting up a Mustang to handle isn't as difficult as many exaggerate it to be. You dont have to have teeth jarring stiffness, you don't have to drag on speed bumps, or in driveways, etc.
Before you get all excited, I have been a professional driver. I know what I'm doing. I don't do it in traffic, and I don't endanger anyone who isn't a willing participant. I've let plenty of crazy guys go who wnated to race through traffic, on city streets, etc. Not my style. I also know street/hwy racing is way different than tracl racing. I've done enough of both, so I don't need that lecture either. Just offering my experience and build up for comparison.
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Suspension
Ground Control double adjustable Konis, coil overs in the front, adjustable springs in the back. They come with top plates, and use BMW strut bearings.
(Ground Control specializes in BMW race suspension, and the owner is a Mustang fanatic)
Spring rates: 420 front, 200 rear.
Alignment settings are -1.7 camber, 7-8 caster, and 1/16 static toe in.
Ride height front: 14 3/8" from center of wheel to fender lip, rear 14 1/2". The rocker panel is parallel to the ground. The front CA's are parallel to the ground. (not ideal by any menas)
I've done nothing to improve bump steer or roll center.
Stock AR bars, linksand bushings. I drilled the front bar in two more places on the ends to make it adjustable (stiffer). It's on the middle setting.
FrontCA bushing supports fron Steeda.
Brake ducts from Quantum
Rear
Spohn Combo PH bar, poly one end, rod end the other.
BMR PH bar support.
Spohn combo LCA's. Again, poly one end, rod end the other.
BMR LCA relocate brackets. The LCA's are parallel with the ground.
BMR UCA mount and arm w/ spherical beaaring. Mount is in the upper hole. The lower may improve the Instant center, but I don't like the excessive angle of the UCA as I believe this causes too much geometry change during movement. IMO the UCA is the weak link of the three link. It needs to be a lot longer.
Poly differential bushing
Eibach bump stops, and I use them regularly. Not hard, but they do their job.
Gearing is stock 3:31, which I prefer on the highway. Third will take me to 110, and pulls like the dickens. Fourth will top out the speedo, and that's as far as I usually go.
Wheels and tires:
Factory 18" Bullits w/ 255/45 Nittos.
Engine:
Steeda UDP's
Econo plate delete kit
C&L race intake w/ 91 and 100 tune for track days. I also had them eliminate the "fast throttle" setting. That sucked in on-off throttle modulation in tight 1-2 corners.
Magnaflow axle backs. Not really a performance thing, just sound nice.
Hurst shifter
Does it handle? The cornering force that this car generates, and it's stabilityis amazing, for basically stock suspension. The double adjustable Konis are the real hero of this suspension. I've hadit atButtonwillow and although I never got a lap time, I can tell you I was in the corners with most anything out there except for full competetion cars. There were a few 911's and Vipers, a bunch of Vettes, etc. Alan Crockett was there with his BDX 'Stangs, as well. Of course in my car the HP was a limiting factor, and there were plenty of cars that walked me in the straights but I was amazed how well the car cornered and handled, especially with the small tires. I upgraded to performance brake pads and a dot4 fluid, and that helps, along with the cooling ducts, but isn't sufficient for lap after lap. I destroyed the rear pads and subsequently the rotors. Tire temps were very consistant across the tire at 1.7 deg camber ranging from about 109 to 114 deg. on all four corners.
On the street, itbump steers a little, but nothing that can't be managed. The tires have 39K mi on them and are about 50% worn, and with regular rotation, have worn perfectly even at 35 psi. The outer edges do show signs of regular hard pushing, though. On the street I run one click of rebound lighter, adn two clicks of compression on the front, one on the rear. There is a slight static understeer, but at the speeds I'm most interested in, that's a good thing. It's totally predictable and easily managed with either more throttle, or a little speed scrub, depending on how fast you're going. I might shoot for more neutral handling now that I know the car better.
After 50K mi, I'm in the process of pulling everything apart for a full inspection and some more upgrades. So far I'm finding nothing of any concern. The rod ends could actually go back in, although will be replaced, along with the bushings. Front wheel bearings will be replaced, along with front ball joints.
Upgrades will be:
18 X 9.5 Enkei rims w/ 285 40 rear, 275 40 front. (Tires YTBD)
Willwood 13" six pots
Rear AR bar upgrade.
AR bar link upgrades.
AR bushing upgrade
Bump steer kit
Front CA relocate
Front CA bushings
Rear UCA mount and arm upgrade
Front air splitter (YTBD...probably my design)
Shelby rear wing
More power.

Should be interesting

[quote]ORIGINAL: timothyrw

the mustang is a fantastic car for the price.

the corvette is also afantastic car for the price.

but handling has never been eitherone of their strong points. i mean, it's all relative (that is to say, they both handle "well") but the m3is often the benchmark, the pinnacle, of handling for premium auto makers.

sure, you can set up a mustang as a competenttrack car with gobs of money. but can you drivethat same cararound pot-holed roads and not break your teeth, not get stuck on speed bumps?

the m3 comes track ready and yet isalso aconsumate daily driver.

these comments from insideline should yield some perspective:

In our book, the 2008 BMW M3's damping setting of Comfort is the equivalent of a BMW 3 Series with a Sport Package suspension. In this softest setting, you'll be aware of road imperfections, but only the worst of them will be jarring. The Normal setting brings you the ride harshness of, say, a 2007 Porsche 911 GT3, a car that only gets a pass from us because it's so damned good at the track that we'll endure the occasional punishment with a
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Old 03-29-2008, 11:03 PM   #15
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Default RE: How much $$$ to compete w/ new M3 or S4 in the twisties?

nice post steelcomp! I wish i had your racing experience!

I really like what you have done and are panning on doing with your car. I like the bushing emphasis that you have, i think that bushingscontribute a great dealtowards our cars feeland that they arefrequently overlooked.
I am finishing installs based on the basic needs of my cars suspension as we speak and plan to go back and fine tune.

I really do love my mustang and can deffinatley see its great potential.
Back to crazystylin, i cant wait to be running with the M's & vette's : )
I wouldnt be discouraged on the subject of your cars ability! It is certainly possible with the proper setup!

Norm actually got me on to this but i would like to recomend it to anyone looking to learn the basics:
The book How to make your car Handle by Fred Pun will really get you started in the right direction if you wanted to aquire a better knowledge of suspension and chassis setup. I base much of what i do to my cars susp. on various books i have read such as this one.Pun's is a great starting point! (thanks Norm)

LOTS of great information can be aquired on this site and other forums but i think the best way to setup your car is to educate yourself on chassis and suspension, asses your cars handling, and then go from there. Know your susp. components well enough that you can diagnose your problem, order the according part(s) (or tune your setup), cure the promblem, and then move onto the next problem and by the time you have finished you will end up with a well balanced and personally satisfying suspension and chassis, without wasting money on unecessary parts you were told you had to buy. By no means am i bashing the advice gained from people here but personal knowledge of the subject is excedingly helpful. Many times have i talked to Norm or F1Fan or CrazyAlabout the diagnosageof my personal problems,and it has been very informative.

This is all just my personal opinion. lol disclaimer

Good Luck,
Hunter

lol, i am definatley nota staff writer or a Beamer Salesman hahaha .
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Old 03-29-2008, 11:40 PM   #16
timothyrw
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Default RE: How much $$$ to compete w/ new M3 or S4 in the twisties?

not a bmw salesman but i have always loved bmw's.

the 1995 e36 m3 was one of two reasons why i went to college! i remember when car and driver named it the best handling car period, money no object, in 1997.

alas, i ended up in a career that while comfortable, a m3, new atleast, would mean too many other sacrifices...
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Old 03-30-2008, 12:47 AM   #17
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Default RE: How much $$$ to compete w/ new M3 or S4 in the twisties?

S4s are noseheavy pigs, even if they do have AWD, they still understeer badly. The M3 is a very good handling car but I've kept up with them on the track. There are too many factors here and a lot depends on the driver. I've seen "much more capable cars" at the track with sh!tty drivers that I was easily faster than, but I've also seen Miatas that will tear me a new one with much less than half the horsepower.
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Old 03-30-2008, 12:41 PM   #18
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Default RE: How much $$$ to compete w/ new M3 or S4 in the twisties?

If I remember correctly the Lincoln LS out handled the BMW in 2000 and the revised LS did it again in 2003. It was built on the DEW platform developed by Jaguar. I also thought I read somewhere that the Mustang uses a modified DEW platform that is shortened and minus the IRS. Point being is that if that is true then I would expect the Mustang could be built to out handle some of the older bimmers. However, the new BMW may have a new platform (I don’t know) so it may take more to make a stang run with a modern one but I would still think it is possible. It just takes money. For the 30K we have in savings, I’d say we have a chance to beat a BMW and still come out way ahead financially. [align=left] [/align]
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Old 03-30-2008, 05:51 PM   #19
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Default RE: How much $$$ to compete w/ new M3 or S4 in the twisties?

Some very well posts put together in here.
I have passed up better handling cars than mine on the road course. Alot had to do with they sucked more than me driving, and the last time out it was pouring rain and I had the ideal tire setup for the puddle infested track.

Best mod is the driver mod, me and the car are slowly getting there. Each year I go out I have a few more mods, and a little more experience, we get around the track faster.
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Old 03-30-2008, 06:14 PM   #20
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Default RE: How much $$$ to compete w/ new M3 or S4 in the twisties?

Quote:
ORIGINAL: TheRebel

If I remember correctly the Lincoln LS out handled the BMW in 2000 and the revised LS did it again in 2003. It was built on the DEW platform developed by Jaguar. I also thought I read somewhere that the Mustang uses a modified DEW platform that is shortened and minus the IRS. Point being is that if that is true then I would expect the Mustang could be built to out handle some of the older bimmers. However, the new BMW may have a new platform (I don’t know) so it may take more to make a stang run with a modern one but I would still think it is possible. It just takes money. For the 30K we have in savings, I’d say we have a chance to beat a BMW and still come out way ahead financially. [align=left][/align]
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[/align]Jump to: navigation, search[/align]The Ford DEW platform (or DEW98) is Ford Motor Company's midsizerear wheel driveautomobile platform. The D/E nomenclature was meant to express an intermediate size between D and E class vehicles, while the W denoted a worldwide platform. The platform was developed by both Ford and Jaguar engineers, and debuted in the Lincoln LS sedan.
A less-expensive variant known as DEW Lite was originally to be used for the 2005 Ford Mustang, but the platform was significantly redesigned to become the Ford D2C platform instead.

and here is the word from Wikipedia on the Ford Dc2 Platform;

The Ford D2C platform (for "D-class 2-door coupe" and also known as DC2 and S197) is Ford's newest global rear-wheel driveautomobile platform.
The platform basics are a MacPherson strut suspension in front and 3-link solid axle in the rear with a Panhard rod. The 2007 high performance Special Vehicle Team (SVT) Mustang variation, called the Shelby GT500, will not include an SVT-designed independent rear suspension, but will also have the solid rear axle. Engines include a 4.0 L V6, Ford's Modular 4.6 L V8, and a supercharged 5.4 L Modular V8 in the GT500.
Considered a new platform by Ford Motor Company D2C is loosely based on the Ford DEW platform which served as the basis for the Lincoln LS, Ford Thunderbird, and Jaguar S-Type. The 2005 S197 Mustang was originally designed to use a "Lite" version of the DEW98 platform, but while that plan was eventually scrapped as too expensive, most D2C platform development completed prior to that decision was retained. This led to the carryover of several DEW98 chassis components. These components include the floor pans, portions of the [URL=http://en.wikipedia
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Old 03-30-2008, 06:14 PM
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