first track day with the new set up
10-14-2011, 02:43 PM
#1
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Location: Houston, Texas
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first track day with the new set up
so yesterday i went to red meat and race fuel at MSR in houston for the first track day with my new suspension. my new set up is steeda ultralites, koni yellows, and J&M camber caster plates. i had the fronts turned 1 1/2 turns, and the rears 1 turn. i gotta say that my car feels AMAZING. so much faster than before. according to my unofficial time keeper friend, i was running around 2:02/3 a lap when i wasnt let ppl pass me (which was a lot lol), which is about 6-7 seconds faster than last time i was there before the suspension. i got a total of 1 hour of seat time (2 sessions of 30 minutes). shouldve gotten 3 but a MR2 completely caught on fire and burned to a crisp lol. so what i learned is that i need to stop being so sloppy. i was driving pretty damn hard to find out the limits of the car. also tried downshifting coming into turns, and found out thats really hard lol. ive never had to do it before since i mostly just autox, so i guess im gonna have to teach myself how to heel-toe. also how much are we supposed to rev match when downshifting? i know this is long winded, but i couldnt get my hands on a gopro before i went out there, so i cant show yall how i did, but any kind of suggestions on the whole downshifting thing are welcome! and i highly recommend msr. its a really fun fast track
10-15-2011, 09:34 PM
#2
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I heel-toe on every downshift. Years of practice mean I don't even think about it, it just happens. Practice every chance you get and it will come to you. It makes for a nice and smooth corner entry and the right gear heading out of the corner.
Sounds like the suspension changes are working well.
Sounds like the suspension changes are working well.
10-16-2011, 11:18 AM
#3
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I heel-toe on every downshift. Years of practice mean I don't even think about it, it just happens. Practice every chance you get and it will come to you. It makes for a nice and smooth corner entry and the right gear heading out of the corner.
Sounds like the suspension changes are working well.
Sounds like the suspension changes are working well.
10-16-2011, 03:28 PM
#4
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Kansas
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Indeed, once you figure it out it heel-toe becomes very natural. The Mustang pedals (in the 2010 anyway) are decently spaced and I consider it probably easier than most cars to heel-toe properly. Just for clarity, don't let the name 'heel-toe' mislead you; my heel is not involved in the maneuver in any significant way (some peoples' are, but I'm the opposite of pigeon toed so it's virtually impossible for me to rotate my heel far enough over to hit the gas).
Just keep the ball of your foot on the brake, but shifted way over to the right (but enough on the brake pedal to feel comfy), and then while holding that part of your foot steady while braking roll your ankle a bit and stab at the throttle with the outside of your right foot. Honestly, you just give it a quick blip and that usually seems to be about enough for a rapid downshift. One of those things you get a feel for; kinda hard to quantify how much or how long I 'blip' the throttle, but it's nothing more than a quick stab. You don't have to get it exactly matched, just enough to get close so you don't upset the drivetrain.
Some people downshift through each gear (say, 4, 3, 2), but for me I'll just hold off on the blip until I'm going slow enough to go directly from 4 to 2 (or whatever gear(s) you need to skip). Not sure if that's 'right', but once you learn what gear works in a given corner I see no need to pass through every gear on my way down to the correct one. Might be good practice to go through each gear though. Shoes that are wider through the ball of the foot help too; I have Pilotis which are nice and wide through there on purpose.
Anyway, good luck with it! If you've already picked up 6-7 seconds, plan on being a few seconds quicker yet with heel-toe mastered and just more time refining your lines and such. Sounds like a fun time!
Just keep the ball of your foot on the brake, but shifted way over to the right (but enough on the brake pedal to feel comfy), and then while holding that part of your foot steady while braking roll your ankle a bit and stab at the throttle with the outside of your right foot. Honestly, you just give it a quick blip and that usually seems to be about enough for a rapid downshift. One of those things you get a feel for; kinda hard to quantify how much or how long I 'blip' the throttle, but it's nothing more than a quick stab. You don't have to get it exactly matched, just enough to get close so you don't upset the drivetrain.
Some people downshift through each gear (say, 4, 3, 2), but for me I'll just hold off on the blip until I'm going slow enough to go directly from 4 to 2 (or whatever gear(s) you need to skip). Not sure if that's 'right', but once you learn what gear works in a given corner I see no need to pass through every gear on my way down to the correct one. Might be good practice to go through each gear though. Shoes that are wider through the ball of the foot help too; I have Pilotis which are nice and wide through there on purpose.
Anyway, good luck with it! If you've already picked up 6-7 seconds, plan on being a few seconds quicker yet with heel-toe mastered and just more time refining your lines and such. Sounds like a fun time!
10-16-2011, 04:49 PM
#5
I heel toe all the time. Its just something that happens when I drive now I don't even think about it. Practice is the only way you will get a feel for how much you need to give it. But the idea is just to get the engine spinning at the rpm it would be at with the gear you are about to put it in (so let the revs drop going 3-4 and 4-5, and tapping the gas to bring it back up ~500rpm going 5-4), expect something like a full 1k rpm if you're higher in the power band.
10-16-2011, 09:54 PM
#6
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ok cool thanks guys! yea ive been trying to do actual heel toe since i wear vans and they arent very wide so im having trouble getting the foot all the way over. ill keep trying tho thanks!
10-17-2011, 08:33 AM
#7
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In my Mustang I installed aluminum pedals (technically they are pedal covers, held in place with small bolts) that made both the brake pedal and gas just a wee bit wider and hence closer together. It allows me to more easily keep half of my foot on the brake and then just rock my foot to blip the throttle. I do that on the street all the time. But on the track I actually use my heel - full ball of foot on brake and then twisting my ankle and blipping the throttle with my heel. I'm just more comfortable with that because it gives me a more secure feeling on the brake pedal.
One thing the car needs to have is good throttle response. In my '07 with stock tune the response at the bottom of the RPM range is horrible. I usually don't think about doing a throttle blip, its just automatic. The lousy throttle response messes me up once in a while because I do a blip and there is no response from the engine. On the track or when pulling above 3K its not an issue though because response is good. In my Corvette on the other hand the response is always instant, regardless of rpm. Its a real pleasure to heel-toe in.
How much gas do you give it? What works best for me is to do a big stab on the throttle so the engine revs high and then catch it on the way down. So basically - clutch in, big stab of the gas, wait for the revs to start coming down, let out clutch. Part of the benefit of this is you can hear it, the high rev, and are better able to gauge when to let the clutch out.
One thing the car needs to have is good throttle response. In my '07 with stock tune the response at the bottom of the RPM range is horrible. I usually don't think about doing a throttle blip, its just automatic. The lousy throttle response messes me up once in a while because I do a blip and there is no response from the engine. On the track or when pulling above 3K its not an issue though because response is good. In my Corvette on the other hand the response is always instant, regardless of rpm. Its a real pleasure to heel-toe in.
How much gas do you give it? What works best for me is to do a big stab on the throttle so the engine revs high and then catch it on the way down. So basically - clutch in, big stab of the gas, wait for the revs to start coming down, let out clutch. Part of the benefit of this is you can hear it, the high rev, and are better able to gauge when to let the clutch out.
10-17-2011, 08:47 AM
#8
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Houston, Texas
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In my Mustang I installed aluminum pedals (technically they are pedal covers, held in place with small bolts) that made both the brake pedal and gas just a wee bit wider and hence closer together. It allows me to more easily keep half of my foot on the brake and then just rock my foot to blip the throttle. I do that on the street all the time. But on the track I actually use my heel - full ball of foot on brake and then twisting my ankle and blipping the throttle with my heel. I'm just more comfortable with that because it gives me a more secure feeling on the brake pedal.
One thing the car needs to have is good throttle response. In my '07 with stock tune the response at the bottom of the RPM range is horrible. I usually don't think about doing a throttle blip, its just automatic. The lousy throttle response messes me up once in a while because I do a blip and there is no response from the engine. On the track or when pulling above 3K its not an issue though because response is good. In my Corvette on the other hand the response is always instant, regardless of rpm. Its a real pleasure to heel-toe in.
How much gas do you give it? What works best for me is to do a big stab on the throttle so the engine revs high and then catch it on the way down. So basically - clutch in, big stab of the gas, wait for the revs to start coming down, let out clutch. Part of the benefit of this is you can hear it, the high rev, and are better able to gauge when to let the clutch out.
One thing the car needs to have is good throttle response. In my '07 with stock tune the response at the bottom of the RPM range is horrible. I usually don't think about doing a throttle blip, its just automatic. The lousy throttle response messes me up once in a while because I do a blip and there is no response from the engine. On the track or when pulling above 3K its not an issue though because response is good. In my Corvette on the other hand the response is always instant, regardless of rpm. Its a real pleasure to heel-toe in.
How much gas do you give it? What works best for me is to do a big stab on the throttle so the engine revs high and then catch it on the way down. So basically - clutch in, big stab of the gas, wait for the revs to start coming down, let out clutch. Part of the benefit of this is you can hear it, the high rev, and are better able to gauge when to let the clutch out.
10-17-2011, 07:18 PM
#9
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: BC
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My technique is similar to Argonaut's, but it's a little different. I brake with my big toe on the brake pedal and that places the other side of my shoe over the gas pedal. I just rock my ankle toward the center of the car to blip the throttle. Of course it helps if you have a solid-feeling brake pedal that doesn't have to move very far (racing pads, fresh fluid, stainless lines).
10-17-2011, 10:20 PM
#10
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alright so ive been practicing today and have figured some stuff out. my foot isnt wide enough to hit both pedals with the wide part of my foot, my size 10s just arent wide enough (or maybe just my shoes arent). so what i was able to figure out worked best was me getting most of the top half of my foot on the brake, and stabbing at the throttle with my heel. its kinda awkward but im gonna keep practicing to be able to do it in quick braking situations