Upgrade GT Coyote to spank Camaro SS-1LE
04-06-2013, 05:07 PM
#41
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: TX
Posts: 220
Allow me to be blunt, because well... it's better than sugar-coating things and giving people the wrong impression.
If you forced me to drive box stock cars, no mods, stock tires and all, I'm going to take the 1LE SS over the Mustang (even the Boss because the Boss isn't really very special in comparison to Brembo GT on the suspension side).
Allow me to mod the Mustang and things start to change. And frankly there is more to be gained modding the Mustang than the Camaro (which already has more negative camber, stickier tires and a lot more tweaks to balance). In short, the Mustang has more room to grow and the solid axle... well if you work that right it's not really a problem. FWIW the GM's rear suspension is kind of wacky in a whole 'nother way with bind and such.
If you forced me to drive box stock cars, no mods, stock tires and all, I'm going to take the 1LE SS over the Mustang (even the Boss because the Boss isn't really very special in comparison to Brembo GT on the suspension side).
Allow me to mod the Mustang and things start to change. And frankly there is more to be gained modding the Mustang than the Camaro (which already has more negative camber, stickier tires and a lot more tweaks to balance). In short, the Mustang has more room to grow and the solid axle... well if you work that right it's not really a problem. FWIW the GM's rear suspension is kind of wacky in a whole 'nother way with bind and such.
Besides the KONI's & Steeda springs, that I already got from you. Do you think I might need something else, instead of changing my car for an 1LE?. By the way, I mounted on my rear Brembo wheels, some 275/40 R19 Michelin pilot SS, that I am planing to do the same with the front ones, after they wear, to keep a square set up
04-06-2013, 05:55 PM
#42
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,792
Hi Sam,
Besides the KONI's & Steeda springs, that I already got from you. Do you think I might need something else, instead of changing my car for an 1LE?. By the way, I mounted on my rear Brembo wheels, some 275/40 R19 Michelin pilot SS, that I am planing to do the same with the front ones, after they wear, to keep a square set up
Besides the KONI's & Steeda springs, that I already got from you. Do you think I might need something else, instead of changing my car for an 1LE?. By the way, I mounted on my rear Brembo wheels, some 275/40 R19 Michelin pilot SS, that I am planing to do the same with the front ones, after they wear, to keep a square set up
i have the same setup basically, except im staggered with f14's as rims and 10.5 inch wide rears with 295 pilot supersports. Id be surprised if the camaro could handle as well as mine does now especially since the camaro is like 500 lbs heavier i think..
edit * mabe its only 250 lbs heavier
Last edited by Andy13186; 04-06-2013 at 06:05 PM.
04-06-2013, 06:46 PM
#43
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 11,278
I don't care how well they make that ugly boat handle, it's still a freaking boat of a car. The gt is quite frankly at the verge of being to heavy/big for a fun track car, but atleast it can be lightened up some. The camaro is just too damn big.
Last edited by moosestang; 04-06-2013 at 06:49 PM.
04-06-2013, 07:46 PM
#44
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 11,278
That is a little disappointing because the new 2015 will be lighter and mount IRS. The potential is there for much better handling, but it wont be realized without the appropriate shocks & springs to go with the car.
I really hope Ford gets the right recipe for superior handling. The stock S197 GT shocks, struts, anti-roll bars are woefully inadequate for track use and require upgrading. The wheel and tire size can use upgrading too.
I hope the 2015 chassis (S-2015?) will address these things.
For the IRS, I hope Ford has learned their lessons from the Terminator IRS, and I also hope that Ford has been paying attention to the problems Chevy has had with their IRS.
The Camaro SS IRS has weak spindles for the 426BHP the engine makes. Even bolt-on mods are enough to break the stock SS IRS spindle axles. Add a supercharger and they snap like a twig.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Gno7...bNivug&index=1
I really hope Ford does not make the same mistake, especially considering our cars all make in excess of 400BHP and bolt-on mods easily can go above 450BHP.
Chevy was smart enough to completely beef up the rear end of the Camaro. The ZL1 and the 1LE package both come with much stronger spindles. Prior to the ZL1 and the 1LE package, stronger spindles that had to be bought aftermarket from Lingenfelter or others. Additionally, Chevy got smart and upgraded their smaller 8.65in rear gear with a much larger 9.9in rear gear.
Our cars are getting much more powerful, and even though there are rumors that everyone is going V6 for the GT & SS trims, even our Sixxers are very capable of being modded to above 450BHP.
Ford designed our Coyote and also our 3.7L DOHC TiVCT engines to one day take boost and direct injection. The NA 3.7L is already 305BHP, but I can see a GT with EcoBoost 3.7L making well above today's Coyote 420BHP. Even this sixxer would wreak havoc on a poorly designed IRS.
I really hope Ford gets the right recipe for superior handling. The stock S197 GT shocks, struts, anti-roll bars are woefully inadequate for track use and require upgrading. The wheel and tire size can use upgrading too.
I hope the 2015 chassis (S-2015?) will address these things.
For the IRS, I hope Ford has learned their lessons from the Terminator IRS, and I also hope that Ford has been paying attention to the problems Chevy has had with their IRS.
The Camaro SS IRS has weak spindles for the 426BHP the engine makes. Even bolt-on mods are enough to break the stock SS IRS spindle axles. Add a supercharger and they snap like a twig.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Gno7...bNivug&index=1
I really hope Ford does not make the same mistake, especially considering our cars all make in excess of 400BHP and bolt-on mods easily can go above 450BHP.
Chevy was smart enough to completely beef up the rear end of the Camaro. The ZL1 and the 1LE package both come with much stronger spindles. Prior to the ZL1 and the 1LE package, stronger spindles that had to be bought aftermarket from Lingenfelter or others. Additionally, Chevy got smart and upgraded their smaller 8.65in rear gear with a much larger 9.9in rear gear.
Our cars are getting much more powerful, and even though there are rumors that everyone is going V6 for the GT & SS trims, even our Sixxers are very capable of being modded to above 450BHP.
Ford designed our Coyote and also our 3.7L DOHC TiVCT engines to one day take boost and direct injection. The NA 3.7L is already 305BHP, but I can see a GT with EcoBoost 3.7L making well above today's Coyote 420BHP. Even this sixxer would wreak havoc on a poorly designed IRS.
The GT is a street car, not a race car, why would it have adequate anything for the track?
If you are hoping for some super beefy IRS, you'll be disappointed. It would be to expensive and heavier than the all ready to heavy independent rear suspensions. I hope they stick with the solid rear axle or at least have it as an option.
I don't think ford designs any engine to take boost, except a boosted engine.
04-07-2013, 12:54 PM
#45
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: state of confusion
Posts: 7,635
could get a fays 2 watts link, not sure how big of a difference that would make
i have the same setup basically, except im staggered with f14's as rims and 10.5 inch wide rears with 295 pilot supersports. Id be surprised if the camaro could handle as well as mine does now especially since the camaro is like 500 lbs heavier i think..
edit * mabe its only 250 lbs heavier
i have the same setup basically, except im staggered with f14's as rims and 10.5 inch wide rears with 295 pilot supersports. Id be surprised if the camaro could handle as well as mine does now especially since the camaro is like 500 lbs heavier i think..
edit * mabe its only 250 lbs heavier
I'd give the new BFG Rival as having a much better shot at parity.
Norm
04-07-2013, 06:59 PM
#46
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: TX
Posts: 220
We might have an idea of the performance of that tire, for example that Michelin is the one that comes standard on the Ferrari 458. And the GY comes on the Corvette Grand Sport, Shelby GT500 and Camaro ZL1. I guess that the Michelin tire has better track handling performance. I readed that this Michelin tire was designed originally for the 458. That is One of the best world handling cars.
Last edited by M3hunter; 04-07-2013 at 07:03 PM.
04-08-2013, 10:33 AM
#47
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: state of confusion
Posts: 7,635
Looking through Tire Rack's own tests, the PSS isn't quite as grippy in some test situations as the PS2, which tested about even with the GY Asymmetric. Given that the GY G.2 ought to be a step up from the Asymmetric I'm inclined to look at the G.2 performance as being potentially a bit above the PSS, and the Rivals to be at or slightly above that.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=140
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=162
I'm also wondering about the Hankook R-S3 with its newly-revised 200 treadwear rating.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....el=Ventus+R-S3
Norm
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=140
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=162
I'm also wondering about the Hankook R-S3 with its newly-revised 200 treadwear rating.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....el=Ventus+R-S3
Norm
09-05-2013, 05:00 AM
#48
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: TX
Posts: 220
Guys,
After I did a spirited test drive. I noticed that it will be very hard for our na Mustangs to be able to compite with the 1LE , we will need to invest high $ to be in the same level. The 1LE is a very fine machine that can beat many exotic europeans & japanese car costing the double.
After I did a spirited test drive. I noticed that it will be very hard for our na Mustangs to be able to compite with the 1LE , we will need to invest high $ to be in the same level. The 1LE is a very fine machine that can beat many exotic europeans & japanese car costing the double.
09-05-2013, 08:24 AM
#49
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,792
Guys,
After I did a spirited test drive. I noticed that it will be very hard for our na Mustangs to be able to compite with the 1LE , we will need to invest high $ to be in the same level. The 1LE is a very fine machine that can beat many exotic europeans & japanese car costing the double.
After I did a spirited test drive. I noticed that it will be very hard for our na Mustangs to be able to compite with the 1LE , we will need to invest high $ to be in the same level. The 1LE is a very fine machine that can beat many exotic europeans & japanese car costing the double.
Last edited by Andy13186; 09-05-2013 at 09:13 AM.
09-05-2013, 12:28 PM
#50
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Utah
Posts: 730
Meh... $40k to buy an ugly (interior is hideous), overwieght vehicle with a massive blindspot just to say you can out-turn a better looking, lighter 5.0 that can be had for $30k? I'll take the 5.0 with a few aftermarket suspension pieces.
edit: It's not like you'll run across a SS-1LE that often anyways so why waste your money trying to beat one? Enjoy your car, it looks awesome
edit: It's not like you'll run across a SS-1LE that often anyways so why waste your money trying to beat one? Enjoy your car, it looks awesome
Last edited by Ricardo; 09-05-2013 at 12:31 PM.