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-   -   Suspension Question (http://mustangforums.com/forum/s197-handling-section/695113-suspension-question.html)

E_cox310 05-12-2013 03:02 PM

Suspension Question
 
I've been dealing with this for a while but I just never thought to ask. When I come across several bumps in the road, my acceleration somewhat gets thrown out of whack and the rear end seems to bounce over the place. Is this due to fact that our cars don't have IRS? Is there a way to decrease this feeling? My suspension mods are as follows... FFRP K Springs, FRPP shocks/struts, 295/35/20 rear tire. Thanks

UPRSharad 05-14-2013 03:59 PM

To some extent, that's a solid rear axle trait, but my S197 has UPR Products control arms & panhard bar and it is A LOT more stable than it was from the factory.

krazykevin 05-15-2013 09:32 AM

control arms (LCA & UCA) will make this feeling almost go away.

jayman33 05-15-2013 08:51 PM

LCA and UCA will not make these traits go away, at all. We have a solid rear axle, a watts link would help a little but the symptoms will still exist.

moosestang 05-15-2013 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E_cox310 (Post 8212116)
I've been dealing with this for a while but I just never thought to ask. When I come across several bumps in the road, my acceleration somewhat gets thrown out of whack and the rear end seems to bounce over the place. Is this due to fact that our cars don't have IRS? Is there a way to decrease this feeling? My suspension mods are as follows... FFRP K Springs, FRPP shocks/struts, 295/35/20 rear tire. Thanks

IRS is only going to help in a bumpy corner. On the street, which is the only place I drive, I have never felt the need for IRS and I do push it in the corners.

We need a better description of what's going on. You could be describing wheel hop. You should have lower control arm relocation brackets with those springs. Your staggered tires could be contributing to the problem, they aren't great for handling.

E_cox310 05-16-2013 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moosestang (Post 8214375)
IRS is only going to help in a bumpy corner. On the street, which is the only place I drive, I have never felt the need for IRS and I do push it in the corners.

We need a better description of what's going on. You could be describing wheel hop. You should have lower control arm relocation brackets with those springs. Your staggered tires could be contributing to the problem, they aren't great for handling.

I only drive on the street also. Let me see if I can be more specific. When i'm accelerating (not hard, just gradually) on a straight bumpy road (even while making a turn), the back of the car just doesn't feel "planted." I guess it can be wheel hop, but i was under the impression that wheel hop only occurs under "hard" acceleration. Basically, what I'm saying, what kind of upgrades should I look into to "feel" more planted to the ground, even while driving on bumpy roads. On smooth roads, the car feels fine. Southern California is notorious for bumpy roads though, lol
Thanks guys for the input.

audioAl 05-16-2013 04:21 AM

How much of a drop are K springs? If it's more than 1 1/2" you must have brackets.

moosestang 05-16-2013 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by audioAl (Post 8214475)
How much of a drop are K springs? If it's more than 1 1/2" you must have brackets.

K springs are 1.5 inch, but anything over 1 inch it's recommended. I'd do relo brackets even with a 1 inch drop, but get the ones with multiple holes for adjustment.

I'd get some relocation brackets and change the rear shocks to koni str T or some other shock made for lowering springs.

jpplaw 05-16-2013 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E_cox310 (Post 8214456)
I only drive on the street also. Let me see if I can be more specific. When i'm accelerating (not hard, just gradually) on a straight bumpy road (even while making a turn), the back of the car just doesn't feel "planted." I guess it can be wheel hop, but i was under the impression that wheel hop only occurs under "hard" acceleration. Basically, what I'm saying, what kind of upgrades should I look into to "feel" more planted to the ground, even while driving on bumpy roads. On smooth roads, the car feels fine. Southern California is notorious for bumpy roads though, lol
Thanks guys for the input.

Sounds like the "hopping" on bumpy curves you are talking about are the symptoms that a watts link cures. A WL simulates (to the best that it can) an IRS. I just put a whiteline WL on mine and bumpy corners are no longer a problem. Single wheel bumps upsetting the car is history now. Corners can be taken crazy fast and you (mostly) don't lose the connected to the road feel. Like anything you can overdo it, and the rear will still come around but generally it really seems to let the suspension work unimpeded.

jpplaw 05-16-2013 01:24 PM

oops - double post

E_cox310 05-16-2013 04:29 PM

I just checked out the watts link kit, and man it's expensive. Not in my budget at the moment. I think what I will do is maybe LCA and relocation brackets when school is out. I bought my car used so I assumed that they are the K springs but they could be the P springs, can't see the part number, but I know they are Ford Racing.
So I know this is a typical question but I figured we are talking I might as well ask you guys. Which LCA's and/or relocation brackets in particular should I go with? I know it won't eliminate my problem, but I just want it minimized.
Here are some pics of my undercarriage as reference..

http://i.imgur.com/pd2u6CM.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/VmKMtFw.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/IZmexPQ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/MKXCTia.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/rCX41LV.jpg

UPRSharad 05-16-2013 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E_cox310 (Post 8214850)
Which LCA's and/or relocation brackets in particular should I go with?

http://www.uprproducts.com/mustang-c...ushing-05.html

There ya go. The LCA and Relo bracket package is toward the bottom. Those are Made in America and they carry a Lifetime Guarantee!

Norm Peterson 05-16-2013 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E_cox310 (Post 8212116)
I've been dealing with this for a while but I just never thought to ask. When I come across several bumps in the road, my acceleration somewhat gets thrown out of whack and the rear end seems to bounce over the place. Is this due to fact that our cars don't have IRS? Is there a way to decrease this feeling? My suspension mods are as follows... FFRP K Springs, FRPP shocks/struts, 295/35/20 rear tire. Thanks

Getting a stick axle car to accelerate smoothly on a washboard road (what you seem to be describing) is problematic at best.

First line of defense might be to check what the rear tires are inflated to. If you've still got 32 or more psi in them, it's too much. Try running 28. Those 295/35-20's will still have adequate load capacity at that pressure, especially if you don't commonly carry lots of heavy stuff in the trunk or adult passengers in the rear seat very often. How wide are your rear wheels? That might affect my recommendation slightly.

Next is rear shocks. Ford's OE shock/strut valving philosophy is a bit on the harsh side, which I think may have carried over to the FRPP line. Honestly, with the stiffer springs I'd take a long and very serious look at the Koni Sports (aka "yellows, and adjustable). Although the STR.t's are a little lighter on the wallet, the adjustability of the yellows gives you a better chance to solve your problem (hint: start full soft and dial them up in 1/8 turn increments, hint #2, it's OK if the front struts are set a little firmer than the rear shocks - or even a little softer for some conditions and driving styles).

You've got the 4.6, so if you really aren't getting all that hard into the throttle I doubt that you're getting wheel hop directly from the power. Only from the road contour. That's not to say that aftermarket LCAs and possibly relo brackets won't help, just that I'd try the other things first.

A Watts link could conceivably help a little in a few specific situations, but I wouldn't rank it very high here even though it's a pretty good mod for the more serious corner-carver.


Norm

E_cox310 05-16-2013 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson (Post 8214961)
Getting a stick axle car to accelerate smoothly on a washboard road (what you seem to be describing) is problematic at best.

First line of defense might be to check what the rear tires are inflated to. If you've still got 32 or more psi in them, it's too much. Try running 28. Those 295/35-20's will still have adequate load capacity at that pressure, especially if you don't commonly carry lots of heavy stuff in the trunk or adult passengers in the rear seat very often. How wide are your rear wheels? That might affect my recommendation slightly.

Next is rear shocks. Ford's OE shock/strut valving philosophy is a bit on the harsh side, which I think may have carried over to the FRPP line. Honestly, with the stiffer springs I'd take a long and very serious look at the Koni Sports (aka "yellows, and adjustable). Although the STR.t's are a little lighter on the wallet, the adjustability of the yellows gives you a better chance to solve your problem (hint: start full soft and dial them up in 1/8 turn increments, hint #2, it's OK if the front struts are set a little firmer than the rear shocks - or even a little softer for some conditions and driving styles).

You've got the 4.6, so if you really aren't getting all that hard into the throttle I doubt that you're getting wheel hop directly from the power. Only from the road contour. That's not to say that aftermarket LCAs and possibly relo brackets won't help, just that I'd try the other things first.

A Watts link could conceivably help a little in a few specific situations, but I wouldn't rank it very high here even though it's a pretty good mod for the more serious corner-carver.


Norm

I remember the last time I had my alignment, it read 32psi in the rear. That was about 3 weeks ago. My rear wheel width is 10.5 inches. If I were to change my shocks and struts later on in the future when these go bad, I'll look into the Koni's. For the meantime, I'm just trying to find small upgrades that can make the rear end a little more firm/planted when driving on uneven roads (if possible). Watts link is most likely out of the question, college budget doesn't allow me too.

Norm Peterson 05-17-2013 06:06 AM

10.5" is wide enough for what I suggested - it's actually the measuring width rim for that size tire. With narrower rims, a little extra inflation can crutch a slightly vague or "woozy" feel (at the expense of faster tread center wear rates).


Norm

CMcNam 05-17-2013 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson (Post 8215136)
10.5" is wide enough for what I suggested - it's actually the measuring width rim for that size tire. With narrower rims, a little extra inflation can crutch a slightly vague or "woozy" feel (at the expense of faster tread center wear rates).


Norm

I love this guy. Everything you say is something useful. Learn something new every time.

Not like me, mine's mostly nonsense! :icon_dopey:


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