JayyVee

Re-posting my suspension Q from the s197 area (and re-reading some older posts here after seeing there was an area just for suspension!).

Hi, hoping to get some input on current products (if you installed, a pic to show would be great!) related to lowering and tightening up the suspension a bit..

Happy owner of 2011 v6 Stang.. Want to start right (did it backwards on my last car, wheels then suspension..) and do the suspension first, then work on wheels, then play under the hood (Want to feel secure, before I make it faster...)

I'm not a complete novice at suspension upgrades, I had a fully adjustable racing suspension (koni shocks, bilstein adjustable struts, along with aftermarket polyurethane mounts for said struts) put in my last car, so am aware of the ride changes, height worries, firmness changes, etc etc etc.

I have the stock suspension right now, and it's already 4x4ing with the stock 17's on it.. (to my eyes and what I'm used to, of course). No 'hate' to Ford from that, they have to sell the car as appealing to everyone as they can. I like to drive hard, and want to feel the road better and be more attached in my driving.. I want to bring it down about 1 1/2 to 2 inches (nothing too drastic, but.. firmer..). Don't want to do coilovers (can you even do those on stangs??), would like to do what I did last time and replace shock/struts to get what I'm looking for (affordable!).

I do want a firmer ride (beyond the 'look'..), but not god-awful rock-hard. (So if there is a 'pro' setup vs 'racing' as I experienced with my last car, I'd go Pro this time).

Suggestions of possible kits, or mix/match shock/strut combo that works well on this year car would be appreciated along with said experiences you might have?

Thanks!

UPRSharad

First things first, lowering springs will get rid of the 4x4 look. At UPR Products, we offer our UPR Pro springs which are made by Eibach and they spec out the same as Eibach's Pro Kit springs. (1.5" drop) http://www.uprproducts.com/mustang-e...prings-05.html

When you lower the car, you should install an adjustable panhard bar to center the rear end (otherwise it'll be shifted over to the driver's side) http://www.uprproducts.com/mustang-p...rd-bar-05.html

Just as important, the dampeners are an area that is greatly lacking from the factory. For good all around handling, I like Koni yellows, but I hear great things about Koni's budget line, the STR.Ts. (we don't sell either at UPR) When you install the struts, you'll have to use 05-10 style strut mounts to adapt them to your 2011 car. However, the GT500 mounts are an upgrade from the stock mounts which tend to pop with aftermarket struts and springs. Plus the GT500 mounts a cheap. Vorshlag makes a nice billet cc-plate, but they're $$$.

Sway bars dramatically improve the cornering without making the ride quality harsher. http://www.uprproducts.com/eibach-mu...ar-kit-11.html

Control arms also improve traction and eliminate wheel hop. Ours are only $179 for the set, which is a screaming deal! http://www.uprproducts.com/mustang-c...ackage-11.html

This was just a quick and brief overview, but these mods make a MONUMENTAL improvement in handling!


For your general info: all parts we manufacture are Made in America, they carry a Lifetime Guarantee, and you get a 10% discount on them for being a mustangforums member. (PM me for details)

JayyVee

Awesome!! Thanks for the information and details, and links on the items you carry - time to piece together a list for Santa..

Can you tell me a little more about the advantages of the control arm upgrade over the stock ones? (This may get added to the list as well)

So sounds like for my type driving and feel I'm looking for;
UPR Pro Springs
Koni Yellow dampeners (why do I always call these struts..)
GT500 mounts (going the distance, don't fail on something like this, I upped the mounts on my last car as well with polyurethane RSM's so I understand the need for these)
Sway Bars - reduce sway - but how much will I see with a drop and tighter suspension from the upgrades above I'm def going with? (Would you do these before even considering springs/dampeners??)

Course, I'd rather do it all at once, and only have the car in the air and pay for labor one go-around..

Anyone you would recommend among MT's vendors for the Koni yellows?

Also, possible that you have a pic of a 11/12 year stang with those UPR pro springs on to get an idea of the wheelgap left over? (or lack of!) If there are pics on the links you sent then disregard, I'm looking at those next.

Thank you very much for the input, you just helped make my vendor decision easier as well.

Syracuse315

Check out this post, specifically #2:

https://mustangforums.com/forum/susp...ion-guide.html

UPRSharad

You're welcome. It's what I'm here for!

About the control arms... My car wheel hopped like crazy before I installed the control arms. The first change I noticed with them was that the wheel hop was gone so I could actually nail the throttle in first gear. Awesome. However, when we installed the first set of LCAs on my car, it was in the pits at Sebring International Raceway, between track sessions. I went out there not thinking I would feel any difference in the corners because I had the drag racer mentality... "LCAs are for drag launches on slicks, right?" Boy was I wrong! The rear end felt more planted in the corners because the polyurethane bushings were keeping the rear end from flopping around under the chassis. This had a snowball effect on the car. It was so much more stable in the corners, I could actually get back on the throttle SOONER exiting the corners, which let me build more speed down the straights. WIN-WIN!!

You'll hear people say that LCAs don't add traction in the corners, but my experience A-B testing LCAs on the racetrack clearly contradicts that theory. The rear end was better planted which made the car faster. No question.

[Full Disclosure]We installed Steeda billet LCAs on my car at the track for an article I wrote for 5.0 Mustang Magazine. Since then, I replaced the billet LCAs with UPR tubular chrome-moly LCAs and I can't tell the difference in a straight line or in the corners. (and believe me, I drive like an idiot so I would notice if there was a difference)


About "dampeners" vs. "struts". Struts are dampeners, so you're all good with the nomenclature. But keep in mind that I'm recommending struts AND shocks.


About GT500 struts mounts, they are an inexpensive upgrade but they do eliminate the popping and nastiness you get from stock strut mounts on a lowered Mustang. However, if you want caster-camber adjustability, you'll want to try something like the Steeda or Vorshlag cc-plates, but they are A LOT more money than the GT500 units.


Swaybars, it doesn't matter if you do them before or after the shocks, struts, and springs, but I'll tell you this- I was surprised by how much better my car handles with the swaybars. Words can't describe how much more secure it feels in the high speed sweepers. The car stays so much flatter through the corners, there's just a lot more grip. The Eibach swaybars are adjustable in the front, which is nice. I made A LOT of changes to my suspension in the past couple months and I noticed that the handling balance moved more toward front grip. With the Eibach swaybars, I can stiffen the front bar to add a little more rear grip. Very nice.


Which MustangForums vendor to use for the Koni Yellows? Here's where I cautiously recommend Sam Strano. I think he's the only vendor here that carries them. I mean, I could recommend Steeda's dampeners, or Roush, or Tokico. Several of the MF vendors carry them. But I've used Konis and I like them! The problem with Sam is that he is absolutely convinced that I know nothing about cornering. Listen, I respect the guy. He's good at what he does. But he's not the only one that's been around a corner in a Mustang. My dad and I installed BBSs, Konis, FRPP springs, SFCs, and a STB on his Mustang back in the EIGHTIES!!! I've done some auto-crossing and I've done some HPDEs. I've just spent more time drag racing, so I'm not known as the cornering guy. So be it. My only concern with recommending Sam is that I've seen him publicly contradict me, so I'm sure he'll tell you my recommendations are all wrong and you should buy from him. Oh well, it's not a life or death situation. Of course, we'd like to have you as a UPR Products customer, but like I said, Sam is a sharp guy, and I'm sure he'll take care of you on a set of Koni Yellows. (whenever they're available. There's been a supply issue with Koni)


Picture of an 11-12 on the UPR Pro springs. I'll hook you up ASAP!


Regarding your comment about your vendor decision- I appreciate it. At UPR Products we are Mustang fanatics. It's our job but it's also our hobby. We live for this stuff. If there is anything we can do for you, we are happy to help. And it's not all about the mighty dollar. As you've seen, I've recommended parts I don't sell. I'm just not the type to BS you and tell you you don't need something just because I don't sell it.

JayyVee

Wow.. All I can say is thanks for that link and /worship to the creators of that post and to all the contributors that he pulled in info from.

AWESOME.

JayyVee

Appreciate the answers and help with the recommendations, I'm building out my x-mas list fully for you guys for sure. Sounds like sway bars are going to be needed (oddly enough I didn't feel the need for them in my bimmer after it's drop, but there is a significant difference in weight from these 2 cars so I can see the need on the stang for them in cornering situations).

Am I really going to need the high end cc-plates for typical DD and 'fun' time driving? (I understand the need to address camber, my bimmer always lost 'everything' after a few bumps in the back, and I'd need to get an adjustment so I wouldn't get accelerated tire wear..) Would the GT500 essentially cover me (and reduce noise - sounds like (haha) w/ stock you're saying it makes actual popping noise with stock plates w/ lowered suspension? (Noise like that cannot be good - something going past it's point of no return..)

I missed the pic! can you repost it for a view of your spring package on a 11-12?

I'm a fan of koni's as well (had them on my bimmer, racing adjustables at that). Didn't really feel the need to play with it much after install but the option was there (Believe we went -2 in front and -1 in rear so I'd not bounce 'so' much and have a somewhat comfy ride).

last Q (I can probably look this up and will try after this post); what is the weight distro on the v6 stangs (my bimmer was nearly 50/50, bit of oversteer but thats better than under imho)

Again thank you for the insight and advice, I truly appreciate it!

Jazzer The Cat

Your welcome

Norm Peterson

I'll put in another vote for the Koni yellows, as well as one for the Steeda HD strut mounts as they also give you about a degree of camber adjustability either side of center.

I'm not convinced that doing the suspension ahead of at least an eye toward the wheel and tire combination that you might conceivably run is the right sequence. For example, if you're going to run enough tire/wheel to crowd the wheelwell room available, that might just define how much you could reasonably lower the car.

I doubt that you'll notice much reduction in cornering roll due to the lowering even though you'd have dropped the CG. Problem is, your front roll center will drop faster than the CG does, and some of the extra spring rate in the lowering springs is being "used up" just to maintain the same amount of roll as you have right now at stock height on the stock springs. The kind of thing where you're buying maybe 50% stiffer springs, but only getting maybe 10% less roll, which I'd defy you to notice. It won't be as bad as in an all-strut car like one of my other cars, where the roll clearly increased after lowering with definitely stiffer springs.

To some extent, you'll be choosing between appearance and cornering "goodness", unless you plan to get deeper into this with some form of geometry correction.

You must have missed seeing the "Handling" sub-section up in the S197 area. There are a few of us who are more commonly up there, but as you found out don't get into the 3.7 section very often (and I've lost my daytime access to this site due to corporate internet filtering, so I'm not nearly as active in any of the sections). I'd never have thought to look there without seeing your mention of posting elsewhere, and even then I had to go through your profile/statistics. You'll find Sam in the S197 Handling section, but rarely elsewhere (and he was out of town at an autocross during this time frame anyway). I've known Sam for about ten years, met him at autocrosses a few times, and yeah, he can be a bit, ummm, overly opinionated from time to time.


Just because I have this picture, this is on stock springs, Koni yellows, Sam's adjustable sta-bars, an out-of-spec alignment (the car came that way, so that's what I set it back to. Honest), and a driver who'd been absent from autocrossing for the better part of a year (me). Tires are "only" 255/45 Goodyear Asymmetrics on 18x9.5 GT500 wheels all around. A degree or so of the body roll that you see is from tire compression on the outside and loss of nearly all of the static tire deflection on the inside - and nothing that you can do to the suspension (including welding it solid so it can't move at all) will ever get rid of it.




Norm

UPRSharad

GT500 strut mounts are fine. And yes, mine are popping like crazy, but I'll swap out the strut mounts and dampeners VERY soon. I need to wrap up my first UPR suspension test at Sebring asap, because it's looking like a supercharger might accidentally fall into my engine compartment over the next few months, and that needs to be the follow up test at Sebring. (We're going to log IATs throughout the open-track testing)

I didn't post a pic yet. Here's a GT (sorry, not a V6) on Eibach Pros:



And remember, the UPR/Eibach Pros spec out identically to the Eibach Pro Kit.