2015 mustang 400 lbs lighter?
09-07-2013, 02:52 PM
#21
if Ford is going to the trouble of putting an independent rear suspension in the Mustang I hope it makes more of a difference than in the Camaro! I drove the Camaro and Challenger expecting to see a great deal of improvement in the ride compared to the Mustang and it was not there.
The key reason why the 5th Gen Camaro IRS is not all that is because the chassis is a heavy beast. If Chevy used a more coup designed chassis, which would definitely be lighter, only then will that IRS begin to show its worth.
09-07-2013, 03:03 PM
#22
Trimming 400 pounds of the new Mustang is way more important than having an IRS.
You guys and your hard on about independent rear are making me laugh...
I know it's a bit off topic on this thread but someone always come up with mentioning it.
You won't see the full potential of the IRS until you get the car on a race track with slicks and hipo suspension.
On the streets, it's just bragging rights.
As it is, a current GT with Brembos and Koni shocks will spank the BMW M3 on the road course for about half the price and without the IRS.
Shaving 400 pounds of the current Mustang would put that car in a totally different category...
If the new platform is indeed that lighter, it's an instant winner. Independent rear or not.
You guys and your hard on about independent rear are making me laugh...
I know it's a bit off topic on this thread but someone always come up with mentioning it.
You won't see the full potential of the IRS until you get the car on a race track with slicks and hipo suspension.
On the streets, it's just bragging rights.
As it is, a current GT with Brembos and Koni shocks will spank the BMW M3 on the road course for about half the price and without the IRS.
Shaving 400 pounds of the current Mustang would put that car in a totally different category...
If the new platform is indeed that lighter, it's an instant winner. Independent rear or not.
To further add to your point, the current S197 Mustang keeps up with and even beats SS Camaros that have 420 ft-lbf torque even though the Coyote has only 380-390 ft-lbf of torque. The key difference is the S197 is 200 lbf lighter, and that 200 lbf is like shedding a ton when it comes to the drag strip. Dropping 400 lbf gives you even more advantage.
As for IRS, yes, I agree here too. You don't need IRS to perform on the track. Being lighter is considerably much more important. And proof is in the hands of fellow members like Jason Young and Sam Strano and what they have won in SCCA using our live axle S197 Mustangs.
09-07-2013, 04:16 PM
#23
S197 Section Modder-ator
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Well, I part time belong to a team (VDS Racing Adventures) that has been successful at racing the S197 platform for a while now and know people in Europe (Eric De Donker) that won Championship with the FR500C and in both cases, the struggle has been with weight, not the lack of IRS.
So the average street driver bitching about not having the IRS on his Mustang is making me laugh uncontrollably.
09-07-2013, 10:00 PM
#24
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: FL
Posts: 11
09-08-2013, 01:51 AM
#25
Let's address some points.
1) making the car shorter and narrower would not necessarily affect the cabin if the removal of said measure was from overhang.
2) adding IRS does not always mean a huge gain in weight. Especially if Ford follows through on the use of an ILIRS design.
3) when combined with the VPCL aka Double Wishbone front suspension we'll see a car that will out handle a BOSS302 quite easily.
4) complaining about a car possibly losing weight is asinine. Less weight improves every performance and efficiency metric with no downside.
This is all just my opinion of course, but it is what it is.
1) making the car shorter and narrower would not necessarily affect the cabin if the removal of said measure was from overhang.
2) adding IRS does not always mean a huge gain in weight. Especially if Ford follows through on the use of an ILIRS design.
3) when combined with the VPCL aka Double Wishbone front suspension we'll see a car that will out handle a BOSS302 quite easily.
4) complaining about a car possibly losing weight is asinine. Less weight improves every performance and efficiency metric with no downside.
This is all just my opinion of course, but it is what it is.
09-09-2013, 03:01 AM
#26
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,149
Actung! Yu vill buy vat vee gee va you tu buy.... und vid der Hollyvood moo vees vid fasht cars und der TeeVee kam-mer-shells vid gerls yu vill lern to luv vat ve geeve you!! Zats it assenholen! Layern to like it!
I suspect that old guys like myself that love the styling of the older Mustangs are being replaced with kids that want their car to look like something out of a Transformer movie! The Camaro is an pure example of that! The new Corvette looks like another Ferrari wannabe! Combine the marketing to kids that drive like a accident just requires a "restart" of a video game, and you have most people tailgating at high speeds while talking on a cell phone with cars that have lost most of their individuality! Can you make a clone of a clone?
I hope the new Mustang doesn't make me happy I have an '08 with its old school styling,
.......but then most people have been brainwashed into believing that American restaurant chains are still serving food.... Saddam had WMD... and voting machines are actually safe.... so I guess anything is possible with enough corporate advertising! Face it.... Jack in the Box Tacos are a both crime against nature & your digestive system, as well as being an insult to Mexican food! By the way, what is that greasy, yellowish, brown crap in those tacos! (Wait.... I think my question included the answer to my own question! LOL! Please be aware that the Flu is rarely the cause for your Diarrhea! Think about what you have eaten at a chain restaurant.... while you are sitting in the smallest room in your house! Yikes...our standards are slipping!
)
I suspect that old guys like myself that love the styling of the older Mustangs are being replaced with kids that want their car to look like something out of a Transformer movie! The Camaro is an pure example of that! The new Corvette looks like another Ferrari wannabe! Combine the marketing to kids that drive like a accident just requires a "restart" of a video game, and you have most people tailgating at high speeds while talking on a cell phone with cars that have lost most of their individuality! Can you make a clone of a clone?
I hope the new Mustang doesn't make me happy I have an '08 with its old school styling,
.......but then most people have been brainwashed into believing that American restaurant chains are still serving food.... Saddam had WMD... and voting machines are actually safe.... so I guess anything is possible with enough corporate advertising! Face it.... Jack in the Box Tacos are a both crime against nature & your digestive system, as well as being an insult to Mexican food! By the way, what is that greasy, yellowish, brown crap in those tacos! (Wait.... I think my question included the answer to my own question! LOL! Please be aware that the Flu is rarely the cause for your Diarrhea! Think about what you have eaten at a chain restaurant.... while you are sitting in the smallest room in your house! Yikes...our standards are slipping!
)
Last edited by Mr. D; 09-09-2013 at 03:35 AM.
09-09-2013, 05:58 AM
#27
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,044
Trunk space
I like the fact that my pony car is a grocery getter! I can get the grocery's FAST!
09-10-2013, 08:28 PM
#28
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: CO
Posts: 310
Actung! Yu vill buy vat vee gee va you tu buy.... und vid der Hollyvood moo vees vid fasht cars und der TeeVee kam-mer-shells vid gerls yu vill lern to luv vat ve geeve you!! Zats it assenholen! Layern to like it!
I suspect that old guys like myself that love the styling of the older Mustangs are being replaced with kids that want their car to look like something out of a Transformer movie! The Camaro is an pure example of that! The new Corvette looks like another Ferrari wannabe! Combine the marketing to kids that drive like a accident just requires a "restart" of a video game, and you have most people tailgating at high speeds while talking on a cell phone with cars that have lost most of their individuality! Can you make a clone of a clone?
I hope the new Mustang doesn't make me happy I have an '08 with its old school styling,
.......but then most people have been brainwashed into believing that American restaurant chains are still serving food.... Saddam had WMD... and voting machines are actually safe.... so I guess anything is possible with enough corporate advertising! Face it.... Jack in the Box Tacos are a both crime against nature & your digestive system, as well as being an insult to Mexican food! By the way, what is that greasy, yellowish, brown crap in those tacos! (Wait.... I think my question included the answer to my own question! LOL! Please be aware that the Flu is rarely the cause for your Diarrhea! Think about what you have eaten at a chain restaurant.... while you are sitting in the smallest room in your house! Yikes...our standards are slipping! )
I suspect that old guys like myself that love the styling of the older Mustangs are being replaced with kids that want their car to look like something out of a Transformer movie! The Camaro is an pure example of that! The new Corvette looks like another Ferrari wannabe! Combine the marketing to kids that drive like a accident just requires a "restart" of a video game, and you have most people tailgating at high speeds while talking on a cell phone with cars that have lost most of their individuality! Can you make a clone of a clone?
I hope the new Mustang doesn't make me happy I have an '08 with its old school styling,
.......but then most people have been brainwashed into believing that American restaurant chains are still serving food.... Saddam had WMD... and voting machines are actually safe.... so I guess anything is possible with enough corporate advertising! Face it.... Jack in the Box Tacos are a both crime against nature & your digestive system, as well as being an insult to Mexican food! By the way, what is that greasy, yellowish, brown crap in those tacos! (Wait.... I think my question included the answer to my own question! LOL! Please be aware that the Flu is rarely the cause for your Diarrhea! Think about what you have eaten at a chain restaurant.... while you are sitting in the smallest room in your house! Yikes...our standards are slipping!
)
09-17-2013, 02:21 PM
#29
Welcome back Jim, lol.
Well, I part time belong to a team (VDS Racing Adventures) that has been successful at racing the S197 platform for a while now and know people in Europe (Eric De Donker) that won Championship with the FR500C and in both cases, the struggle has been with weight, not the lack of IRS.
So the average street driver bitching about not having the IRS on his Mustang is making me laugh uncontrollably.
Well, I part time belong to a team (VDS Racing Adventures) that has been successful at racing the S197 platform for a while now and know people in Europe (Eric De Donker) that won Championship with the FR500C and in both cases, the struggle has been with weight, not the lack of IRS.
So the average street driver bitching about not having the IRS on his Mustang is making me laugh uncontrollably.
I will have to look up Eric de Donker; but I bet his experiences too will back up the fact that weight savings is exponentially more worthwhile than IRS in a heavy beast.
09-17-2013, 02:36 PM
#30
Chevrolet tried to pull a similar fallacy when they announced the 2014 Camaro Z/28.
Chevy touted the Z/28 is 300 lbf lighter than the existing 5th Generation Camaro, but the fact is the Z/28 is only 300 lbf lighter than the 2-ton ZL1 which weighs 4120 lbf.
In reality, the Z/28 will only be 100 lbf lighter than the current Camaro SS.
As more info is released about the new S550 Mustangs, I hope they specify exactly what S197 trim level the 400 lbf weight saving is compared against.
I hope the S550 GT will be 400 lbf less than an S197 GT.
If FoMoCo means the S550 GT is 400 lbf lighter than the S197 GT500, that would put the new S550 GT at around 3450 lbf, or about 150 lbf lighter than the current S197 GT
If they meant the S550 4-banger is 400 lbf less than an S197 GT500, GT for GT, the S550 GT will be possible less than 100 lbf lighter than an S197 GT.
None the less, speaking in terms of GT vs GT, if the S550 GT is only 200 lbf lighter than an S197 GT, I will take that too. 200 lbf is a world of difference as far as handling potential is concerned.