RazorX

If worse comes to worse, I may use this misfortune to convince the wife it would make more sense to have a T56 installed than a replacement 5spd. I mean hey…if the warranty is gone on the transmission anyway and I have to pay for a new one...

I will get better gas mileage, it is stronger and will hold up to the power I plan to make later anyway. I just need to see what the cost difference would be.

Hopefully I am getting ahead of myself and it will be covered under warranty.

RazorX

What was it on your '96? was it the clutch? How bad was the damage?

2006GT

Yes, the clutch disk came apart. No damage to anything else. It gave me a good excuse to upgrade to a stronger unit.

blackfoot

thats exactly what i was thinking! theres no way frinstion material from the clutch would go through metal.. what im thinking about what had hapened, meybe your release bearing was faulty and detonated and now you got you clutch release fork itself (the fork that your slave cylinder pushes on to release your pressure plate.) well withthe bearings gone youll have 2 pieces of metal (2 ends on the fork) push its way into the belleville springs of the pressure plate and destroy everything


i grenaded clutchs in my old civic. the pieces fall out after i drop the transmission

RazorX

Well, the diagnosis has been given to me as well as the warranty coverage answer. The call came on my cell phone while I was in a meeting. I left the meeting to take the call once I saw the area code but I didn’t stay on the call for very long because I had left a fairly important meeting and needed to get back to it.

The Diagnosis:
The clutch did explode inside the bell housing just as I feared. The apparent cause of the failure was a spring that let loose and then proceeded to tear the clutch to pieces. It seems that the spring was starting to come undone when I was noticing the pedal stiffening up prior to it completely letting go. The Service tech I spoke with said the only part they needed to replace was the clutch so they ordered one today and he expects it to be in his hands (and hopefully in my car) in a few days. I asked if there was any other damage to the transmission. He said there didn’t appear to be any other damage.


Warranty or out of my pocket?
They are covering it under warranty. I was relieved and stunned at the same time. I honestly believe the guy that owns the shop I was heading to when it happened (Jeff Wightman) had a lot to do with this being covered under warranty. He went over there today and talked to the service manager and the tech. The fact that they know him and trust him probably saved me a boat load of money.

Jeff owns and operates Precision Autosports in Beavercreek (Dayton suburb), OH. He is a stand up guy that does awesome work. He obviously didn’t have to take the time to do this for me but I am very grateful that he did. Heck, I just met him a few weeks ago. He is a class act and I highly recommend him and his shop.

Believe it or not, I forgot to ask about the hole in the bell housing while I was on the phone with the service tech. I can’t believe I didn’t ask him but I was so elated to hear it was being covered under warranty and that I should have my car back by the weekend. I was also pressed for time since I ducked out of a meeting and needed to get back.

Jeff was going to go back over to the dealership and take pictures of the carnage while it was still apart. I will post them when I get them from him.

RazorX

Well the saga continues…

I received a call from the service manager today and he told me he was not going to honor the warranty claim on my car. I explained to him the service technician had called me yesterday and ensured me the repair was going to be covered under warranty. He said he knew that but after giving it some more thought, he decided to reverse that decision. I was stunned.

I asked him why he had decided to not honor the warranty claim on this repair. He said, and I quote, “Well, you have quite a few aftermarket modification on that car.” I asked him if he believed any of the modifications was the direct cause of the clutch failure or contributed to it. He didn’t really give me a straight answer so I asked him “Could you look me strait in the eyes and tell me you honestly believe any of the parts on this car caused or contributed to this failure.” He still didn’t really answer my question directly. Instead he said something to the effect of “When someone puts parts like that on a car, you have to assume they are not driving it the way it was intended…they are abusing the car…drag racing…etc.” I paraphrased his statements back to him and asked if I understood him correctly and he agreed that I had and mentioned something about hard launching the car (i.e. drag racing).

I told him that I didn’t believe any of the aftermarket parts I have on my car would have contributed to the failure of the clutch and that I didn’t agree with the principle of him deciding to refuse the warranty claim based on an assumption about the driving habits of the owner that was construed from the presence of aftermarket parts. I went on to explain that I have never had the car to a race track nor had I ever engaged in street racing in this car. I explained that I spent a lot of time researching parts and was very selective in what parts I installed because (a) I wanted to tailor the cars handling characteristics and power delivery to my personal taste and (b) because I wanted to make sure I didn’t install something on the car that would create the exact situation I am now in. He said he could understand my points and that he hated to make assumptions because it…

Here are some of the things he mentioned regarding my parts and my responses:

Suspension
Service Manager (SM): It looks like you have some suspension components installed…lighter weight springs in the back…brace…
Me: That is correct. In addition to the springs (front and rear) I also have adjustable shocks and struts installed as well as an adjustable panhard rod to re-center the rear axle after lowering. I also have stronger bracing to reduce deflection in the areas the stock components are known for having shortcomings. All of the suspension components installed on this car improve the handling characteristics without sacrificing the stock ride. The lower stance also makes the car look much better which I desired. None of these would contribute to a clutch failure nor would they be especially desirable for a drag racing setup since they change the pinion angle. That hurts your ability to launch as well. I would have went with a completely different suspension setup had I intended to drag race this car.

Tires
SM: You also have some pretty big tires on there. I assume those would give you much better traction (I assumed he was implying drag racing again).
Me: Yes they do…for cornering. I restated this car is setup to handle better without sacrificing the stock ride and that I wouldn’t be running this tire/wheel combination if my goal was drag racing the car. I would be running drag radials out back and much skinnier tires up front on smaller diameter wheels.

Gear
SM: It looks like you have a different gear installed in it too.
Me: Yes, I do have a lower gear installed.
SM: What is it a 4.10?
Me: No, it is actually a 4.30.
SM: Wow! That’s an even bigger gear than I guessed.
Me: Do you know why I selected that gear and/or why I want it in this car?
SM: Why?
Me: Because I drive the car around town, to work, and occasionally on longer highway trips. This gear ratio keeps me in the power band and allows for quicker acceleration without requiring downshifts as much. Kind of ironic that I was downshifting when the clutch went out in this car.
SM: He chuckled and said “yeah it is.”

I also told him what the service tech had told me about the apparent cause of the failure (the spring coming off and binding up the clutch) and also reiterated what I was doing when the part failed (downshifting into third gear while driving on the highway). I asked him how he thought that action could be construed as abusive or inappropriate driving. He said while that wouldn’t be, he couldn’t be sure I was telling the truth.

I even asked him if there was a data logger on this car and/or if he could extract the data from the “black box” to see what was going on with the car when the clutch broke and that I thought this information would prove I was telling him the truth. He said “Unfortunately, there isn’t anything like that on these cars. I asked our service techs that same question because the Dodges have that and they informed me these do not.” I told him that was a shame considering he was basing his decision on an assumption that I felt this data could prove to be wrong.


After all of this conversation he admitted that his main concern was that Ford would deny the claim when they sent the part back for inspection and the dealership would be out of the money for the parts and labor.


He said he could understand my position and asked if I could try to see his. He said he has an obligation to the dealership to make sure they don’t eat the money on this warranty claim. I told him I was trying real hard but was struggling with that request. I told him it was a very tough and bitter pill to swallow considering we both agree at this point that none of these parts would cause this failure and I know I wasn’t abusing the car. I also told him I feel he has an obligation to the customer when representing Ford just as much as he has one to the dealership.

He then told me he had two options for me:

[ul]
1. I could buy an aftermarket, higher performance, clutch and they would install it for the cost of labor (about three – three and one half hours). He even said they looked and thought I could get one from Jegs for about $200. He also said “I obviously wouldn’t be able to cover it under warranty since it would be an after market part.”
2. They could go ahead and install the factory replacement clutch that they had already ordered, charge me for the parts and labor, submit it as a warranty claim, and then refund me the money if Ford accepts it. He said I would obviously have to trust him to refund the money if it was accepted.
[/ul]


I told him neither of these options sounded fair or just considering everything we just discussed. I also told him it apparently didn’t matter which of these option I chose from a warranty coverage perspective since he was denying the claim on this stock clutch right now. His response was that he had given this a great deal of thought (and even lost sleep over it last night) and this was the best he could do.

He said I didn’t have to give him the answer right now but could think it over and get back to him. I asked him what the total cost of each option would be and he said that he hadn’t ran the numbers yet. I told him that I would obviously need that information before I could even consider the options and he agreed to call me back with the com

backinblack06

That's some really bad news man, and that pretty much blows. I can't believe dealerships even try to pin something so ridiculous on a customer, I understand his point of view but if I were you I would have definately lost it when he was giving me a choice between those two options. I mean let's be serious, for someone of his position and knowledge of cars to even think that any mods you did to the car would even have the slightest bit effect on your tranny is just complete nonsense. My question is how is he so sure that Ford will deny your claim, I feel he has already been in contact with them and told them his side of the story of what he thinks went wrong. I may not be a mechanic but it would make sense to me that when they tore down your tranny they would be able to see in black and white if there was any exessive abuse or gear drops would they not ???? I duno

I hope you get it all straightend out that's a bad situation to be in and I've been in many of them and they honestly rarely end up in your favor, even if you and the dealership know that something isn't your fault.


Good Luck Man[&o]

bunit9685

That's such a bunch of bull ****. Looking at your mods you're not putting out that much HP over stock, the clutch would have failed if your car was bone stock I bet. If they werent a bunch of TECHS and were actual mechanics they'd be able to tell how you treat it just by looking at the clutch and he wouldnt have to trust in your words, which he shouldnt do anyways. In most cases you wont get the whole story as the owner doesnt want to look like an idiot or be held accountable for non warrantied repairs. We bust our asses to get warranty work approved for our customers (I work in the marine service industry) because we want to get the money, whether it's from the warranter or the customer. Sometimes that means the customer ends up SOL and doesnt wana pay for it so he just doesnt get the work done, oh well, atleast we didnt play games. Instead of half assing and guessing they need to take a good look at things, take pictures, send in the claim and call up ford or whoever they call. All these lazy shiester *** service businesses **** me off obviously.

Another thing, he really shouldnt have told you it'd be covered, he proly got yelled at for that. They shouldnt tell you **** till they get the word from the warranter.

ford4v429

did you get to see the clutch disk? was only the one spring deformed/damaged? if you bark 2nd regularly(I do) enough to damage the springs, they all should be deformed/messed up...if only one is, I'd say the spring was just bad. if they are all deformed, Id say well...might be time for me to get a clutch

if the springs are all still in the center and a piece of lining separated/popped thru the bellhousing, then the arguement becomes what MPH did you downshift at...if downshift exceeded disk rpm limit, then its non warranty. if disk just came apart downshifting to third from45 mph, then the disk wasnt built right and should be warrantied. the Magnuson/Moss act might help here, but who knows...depends if excessive power being applied thru clutch can be logically tied to failure. 4.30 gears decrease clutch workload, so only mods that *might* be linked would be any power adders underhood, and the increased tire width(debateable because of gearing)


one last thought to ponder- estimates didnt mention replacing the holey bellhousing did they? at a minimum the area around the hole should be ground away past any cracks/dye penetrant checked to make sure theyre gone- if theres a bit of a crack anywhere near where the hole is(probably likely), that crack will likely grow...

good luck man- if possible get some pics in here of the disk please

gregariousgreg

If the dealer guy is thinking in terms of money losses, try to appeal to that. For example, you might try telling him he will lose all future business from you, which could total thousands of dollars, vs the couple hundred bucks the clutch costs. Or, tell him you will inform all of your friends and people on message boards such as this one about your unfair treatment, and that you realistically only need to persuade a single person not to buy from his dealership in order to offset the cost of the clutch many times over.