Is This Legit or BS?
09-04-2008, 02:54 PM
#11
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Lake Worth, FL.
Posts: 853
TSB
07-5-13
Some 2005-2008 Mustang , Explorer 4dr, Mountaineer, Expedition, Navigator, 2005 Explorer Sport Trac and 2007-2008 Explorer Sport Trac vehicles may experience a no start and have a discharged battery. They are usually stored for prolonged periods of time or are driven infrequently for short distances. Batteries will discharge while the vehicle is in storage due to normal current draw loads. Over a period of time, 30 days or more, vehicles in storage will have shallow to deeply discharged batteries as a result of lack of use or normal current draw.
this is the TSB that the dealership is referring to, it's not normal for the battery to discharge in a week unless there is some sort of major draw on the system.
07-5-13
Some 2005-2008 Mustang , Explorer 4dr, Mountaineer, Expedition, Navigator, 2005 Explorer Sport Trac and 2007-2008 Explorer Sport Trac vehicles may experience a no start and have a discharged battery. They are usually stored for prolonged periods of time or are driven infrequently for short distances. Batteries will discharge while the vehicle is in storage due to normal current draw loads. Over a period of time, 30 days or more, vehicles in storage will have shallow to deeply discharged batteries as a result of lack of use or normal current draw.
this is the TSB that the dealership is referring to, it's not normal for the battery to discharge in a week unless there is some sort of major draw on the system.
09-04-2008, 02:57 PM
#12
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 462
The document is just an excuse for the inefficient ECU in the Fords. Otherwise, it is a very real issue that anyone that drives a vehicle infrequently needs to keep in mind.
Usually a newer battery will not have this issue as badly, so the symptoms (dead or weak battery) will not show up as easily. However, once you deep cycle a battery then this will start to happen more and more often.
Basically, in a typical lead-acid battery, slowly discharging it all the way to zero (deep cycle) will cut the charging capacity as much as 40%. Leaving a dome light on, or the key in turned to the accessory position, or in this case, the various electronics in the vehicle drawing a small amount of current over a period of time, will deep cycle the battery, and if it is done more than once, you might as well throw the battery away because it will not hold a charge worth a damn. Deep cycle a battery even once and the small current draw will kill the battery way faster.
There are solutions however. One is a battery disconnect. You can get automatic ones or manual ones, and basically if you are going to have the vehicle stored for a period of time, you can disconnect the battery quickly and easily. Many manufacturers have a circuit that does this for almost all electrical components of the vehicle, minus the ones they want to maintain power, like the ECU. It sounds like the Ford ECU draws a lot more current than other brands, so even if they are killing power to other electronics in the car, it is not enough.
Even with a disconnected battery, just sitting there the battery can lose its charge (much longer period of time of course). Because of this, they make a number of batteries specifically for long term storage and deep cycle situations. An Optima Yellow Top battery is a gel cell (as opposed to lead-acid) battery that can be deep cycled without damaging the battery. This solution, combined with a small battery charger, is probably the best thing for cars that are stored for long periods of time. Almost every brand of battery has a "Deep Cycle" version that is usually used for boats. The problem with typical deep cycle batteries is they do not have the cranking amps that a standard lead-acid battery has, but they hold their charge for a long time and can hold a "longer" charge (used a lot in trolling motors for fishing, no charger but they can run for hours).
Technically you could use a deep cycle battery in a car, but in many cases they do not make one that fits specific models, and they are not very good if you need a lot of power, like on a diesel, a big block engine, or if you have a large stereo system.
The best bet is an Optima Yellow Top as they perform much like a regular battery but hold a charge longer and can be deep cycled with no damage. They are not cheap though.
edit - As someone pointed out, the factory alarm will also be drawing current if turned on during storage.
Usually a newer battery will not have this issue as badly, so the symptoms (dead or weak battery) will not show up as easily. However, once you deep cycle a battery then this will start to happen more and more often.
Basically, in a typical lead-acid battery, slowly discharging it all the way to zero (deep cycle) will cut the charging capacity as much as 40%. Leaving a dome light on, or the key in turned to the accessory position, or in this case, the various electronics in the vehicle drawing a small amount of current over a period of time, will deep cycle the battery, and if it is done more than once, you might as well throw the battery away because it will not hold a charge worth a damn. Deep cycle a battery even once and the small current draw will kill the battery way faster.
There are solutions however. One is a battery disconnect. You can get automatic ones or manual ones, and basically if you are going to have the vehicle stored for a period of time, you can disconnect the battery quickly and easily. Many manufacturers have a circuit that does this for almost all electrical components of the vehicle, minus the ones they want to maintain power, like the ECU. It sounds like the Ford ECU draws a lot more current than other brands, so even if they are killing power to other electronics in the car, it is not enough.
Even with a disconnected battery, just sitting there the battery can lose its charge (much longer period of time of course). Because of this, they make a number of batteries specifically for long term storage and deep cycle situations. An Optima Yellow Top battery is a gel cell (as opposed to lead-acid) battery that can be deep cycled without damaging the battery. This solution, combined with a small battery charger, is probably the best thing for cars that are stored for long periods of time. Almost every brand of battery has a "Deep Cycle" version that is usually used for boats. The problem with typical deep cycle batteries is they do not have the cranking amps that a standard lead-acid battery has, but they hold their charge for a long time and can hold a "longer" charge (used a lot in trolling motors for fishing, no charger but they can run for hours).
Technically you could use a deep cycle battery in a car, but in many cases they do not make one that fits specific models, and they are not very good if you need a lot of power, like on a diesel, a big block engine, or if you have a large stereo system.
The best bet is an Optima Yellow Top as they perform much like a regular battery but hold a charge longer and can be deep cycled with no damage. They are not cheap though.
edit - As someone pointed out, the factory alarm will also be drawing current if turned on during storage.
Last edited by dkersten; 09-04-2008 at 03:01 PM.
09-04-2008, 03:19 PM
#13
6th Gear Member
Maraman.. If the has the Shaker stereo unit that comes with the Mustang. Tell her to turn it off before she turns the car off. If she leaves it on and then shuts the car off, it somehow keeps drawing current and will kill the battery in a matter of a couple of days.
If she has the shaker stereo i bet money thats what her problem is.
Chris
If she has the shaker stereo i bet money thats what her problem is.
Chris
The amps in the Shaker systems continue to draw power with the ignition switch off.
Last edited by Nuke; 09-04-2008 at 03:31 PM.
09-04-2008, 03:19 PM
#14
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Near Wash. DC Posts: 13,541
Posts: 2,497
This document is false in this situation. All cars experience this TSB problem but the Mustang has a genuine flaw where it's battery will randomly die for abnormal reasons such as the shaker's amps leaking power.
UTTER BS, it's a WELL known issue with the mustang that the battery dies because the car is flawed and not due to normal use.
UTTER BS, it's a WELL known issue with the mustang that the battery dies because the car is flawed and not due to normal use.
Last edited by Legion5; 09-04-2008 at 03:25 PM.
09-04-2008, 05:44 PM
#20
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 462
I have an 06 with the shaker 1000 and my car sits for a week at a time, or longer, no problems yet, and the battery is original. The document shown by the OP said that the current draw was about 50 milliamps. 50milliamps is definately in line with the draw of an alarm and maintaining power to the ECU. And over the course of 30 days could definately kill a battery if it has been deep cycled even once before.
However, there are so many variables. As mentioned, some of the batteries installed in Ford vehicles have literally fallen apart inside and lost a cell which results in a battery only capable of 8 or 10 volts, usually not enough to turn the starter. Also mentioned was a potential problem with the shaker1000, which if it indeed does stay on in some cases would cause much more than the 50 milliamps draw that is "normal" for Fords.
Of course, it could be exactly what it looks like: a battery that has been deep cycled so many times that it can't hold a charge for more than a few days after being fully charged. Put a brand new battery in and keep a charger on hand. If a brand new battery cannot last a week then there is a SERIOUS current draw that needs to be addressed.
However, there are so many variables. As mentioned, some of the batteries installed in Ford vehicles have literally fallen apart inside and lost a cell which results in a battery only capable of 8 or 10 volts, usually not enough to turn the starter. Also mentioned was a potential problem with the shaker1000, which if it indeed does stay on in some cases would cause much more than the 50 milliamps draw that is "normal" for Fords.
Of course, it could be exactly what it looks like: a battery that has been deep cycled so many times that it can't hold a charge for more than a few days after being fully charged. Put a brand new battery in and keep a charger on hand. If a brand new battery cannot last a week then there is a SERIOUS current draw that needs to be addressed.