Camber bolts or not?
08-21-2009, 08:38 PM
#21
3rd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 818
I've done it plenty of times, and a lot, on these new Mustangs.
All you need to gain is no more than a 1/8".
For the bolt to shift back, you'd have to hit the top of the wheel and if you do, you'll have other things to worry about.
Don't forget that the lower bolt remain untouched and once everything is tight, it ain't moving.
All you need to gain is no more than a 1/8".
For the bolt to shift back, you'd have to hit the top of the wheel and if you do, you'll have other things to worry about.
Don't forget that the lower bolt remain untouched and once everything is tight, it ain't moving.
08-22-2009, 08:15 AM
#22
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: state of confusion
Posts: 7,635
Be very careful with this. Relying entirely on friction to maintain alignment is poor practice. Impact and vibration do more things than just make the ride a bit uncomfortable.
And just because it's somewhat current - and relevant because it involves things like proper strut to knuckle bolt torque - here's a LINK that's worth reading.
Norm
And just because it's somewhat current - and relevant because it involves things like proper strut to knuckle bolt torque - here's a LINK that's worth reading.
Norm
08-22-2009, 08:57 AM
#23
S197 Section Modder-ator
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orlando FL
Posts: 13,373
While Norm is right and always has good advices with great knowledge, on a daily driven car, you're not gonna stress anything.
If you plan to race a bit or autoX, have someone weld a little bid on the inside part of the hole, to close it up. Then with the carbide or rat file, make that hole perfectly round again so your spindle and strut have the minimal play that it had from the factory.
On race cars, I used to weld thick washers that have the exact same size hole as your top bolt on either side of the strut after the ovalization was made. That's another way of doing it but you prolly need a longer bolt to make up for the extra thickness.
Like I said, on your average street car, you don't need to do this.
Lots of OEM spindle failures occur when you run really tough springs that are required in road racing...
Last edited by pascal; 10-04-2009 at 05:01 PM.
08-22-2009, 09:51 AM
#24
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,692
Not long really, when you have a carbide bit to put on a drill like shown in the picture.
While Norm is right and always has good advices with great knowledge, on a daily driven car, you're not gonna stress anything.
If you plan to race a bit or autoX, have someone weld a little bid on the inside part of the hole, to close it up. Then with the carbide or rat file, make that hole perfectly round again so your spindle and strut have the minimal play that it had from the factory.
On race cars, I used to weld thick washers that have the exact same size hole as your top bolt on either side of the strut after the ovalization was made. That's another way of doing it but you prolly need a longer bolt to make up for the extra thickness.
Like I said, on your average street car, you don't need to do this.
Lots of OEM spindle failures occur when you run really tough springs that are required in road racing...
While Norm is right and always has good advices with great knowledge, on a daily driven car, you're not gonna stress anything.
If you plan to race a bit or autoX, have someone weld a little bid on the inside part of the hole, to close it up. Then with the carbide or rat file, make that hole perfectly round again so your spindle and strut have the minimal play that it had from the factory.
On race cars, I used to weld thick washers that have the exact same size hole as your top bolt on either side of the strut after the ovalization was made. That's another way of doing it but you prolly need a longer bolt to make up for the extra thickness.
Like I said, on your average street car, you don't need to do this.
Lots of OEM spindle failures occur when you run really tough springs that are required in road racing...
http://www.gtamc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70825
08-22-2009, 01:25 PM
#25
Cut & Paste Expert
Join Date: May 2007
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 13,322
a pin instead of an eccentric to hold the camber setting..
ProgressTechnologies has the best camber bolts round...
Rat Tail Files are for RatRods, not S197s...
It could slip over time causing you to loose
the camber settings you paid to have aligned.
Properly installed Camber Bolts dont depend
for the friction of the bolt torque to hold the
setting in a slotted hole.
Camber bolts have eccentrics on them allowing
for precise camber settings that dont change
over time...
Last edited by 157dB; 08-22-2009 at 04:38 PM.
08-22-2009, 01:31 PM
#26
S197 Section Modder-ator
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orlando FL
Posts: 13,373
What do you call over time?
Alignments are part of the maintenance and nothing will slip before it's due to realign again.
You guys do what you want, that quick fix works in MY world without going back at it.
Alignments are part of the maintenance and nothing will slip before it's due to realign again.
You guys do what you want, that quick fix works in MY world without going back at it.
08-22-2009, 01:46 PM
#27
Cut & Paste Expert
Join Date: May 2007
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 13,322
Do it once right and get on with life knowing you did it right.
Due to be aligned again? Extrapolate widely on that statement, please.
Alignments are for out of spec frames or loose mounting hardware
that move over time. If everything stays as it was as it left the factory,
then its aligned enough. If worn bushings are causing an out of alighment
situation, them a simple replacement of said items is all thats needed
to bring the front end back into alignment.
What changes over time besides worn suspension components and hitting
curbs and such that causes the need for a front end alignment?
If your body and sub-frame are straight and you didnt drop the body
into the weeds with lowering springs instead of the correct way with
lowered spindles (I cant for the life of me figure out why I have never
seen an S197 sporting a proper alignment and lowered spindles, just
the down and dirty way of doing it with ?springs? and loosing all that
suspension travel causing the use of a stiffer spring and the ride quality
suffering as a result with camber and bump steer problems) then the
occasional front end alignment is not needed....
Last edited by 157dB; 08-22-2009 at 04:45 PM.
08-23-2009, 07:52 AM
#29
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: state of confusion
Posts: 7,635
Maybe that's enough margin for the fictitious person who never drives on rough roads or above, say, 30% of the car's capabilities. But I wouldn't dare leave it at that for anything I'd drive.
It's simply nowhere near enough margin for making general recommendations to unknown drivers driving over unknown road conditions at unknown levels of enthusiasm.
Don't take this as flame - maybe you've been fortunate as an individual, or it hasn't drifted enough on you to matter. So far, anyway.
Norm
Last edited by Norm Peterson; 08-23-2009 at 07:56 AM.
08-23-2009, 10:48 AM
#30
S197 Section Modder-ator
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orlando FL
Posts: 13,373
I will say that my "good fortune" is based on nice flat Floridian roads.
So again, you have a point in that rough roads and even heavy breaking, could challenge my top bolt "modification" lol.
I wish I knew the force needed to make it shift though.
I drove to Eureka Springs last April and I was really going hard on State roads 65 (before Harrison) and 62 (On to Eureka).
Killer twisties with no traffic and plenty visibility FTW!!!
Then last month with my Tampa boys, a 120 mile cruise on back roads with nice tight turns... No shift yet.
If it even does shift however, I'll do what I mentioned on my previous posts...