5.4 swap
 

Good grief, I know I'll probably get tarred and feathered for asking this because I'm sure it's been asked eleventy-billion times.
I swear I did a search for "5.4L swap" and found very little.

Who's done it and what does it take? I have a line on a CHEAP 1997 GT and a another line on a very low mile 5.4L Triton. Thought I'd come up here and axe my homeys.....

Techies only please! ;)

RE: 5.4 swap
 

Is the Triton a DOHC?

RE: 5.4 swap
 

you'll have clearance issues with the hood(depending on what intake you run) headers(depending on K-member) but other than that it will bolt right up. some people are notching the frame and some are just swapping k-members, depends on what you want to do with the car.

RE: 5.4 swap
 

Reichard racing makes adapter plates that allow you to bolt the 4.6 intake to the 5.4, thus allowing the stock hood to be retained.

I cannot remember his name, but at least one person on the forum has swapped in a SOHC 5.4 that was stock. His torque was excellent, but the hp was about the same. Again, he used a stock 5.4 without any work on it.

RE: 5.4 swap
 

If you went with a SOHC motor the torque potentials are endless. That solves a lot of the problems all us 4.6 guys have with having a lack of torque. The thing is thats a truck motor. Its torque curve is for hauling and it doesnt redline very high. I say go with a Navi DOHC 5.4 Thats 300+ hp and 350+ trq right off the bat. Plus the cool factor of having a 5.4 in there. Just swap it out with some cobra R cams and intake and ull be good to go! Good luck getting ahold of those! Well either that or just put in a 4v s/c lightning motor. 400 trq isnt bad!

RE: 5.4 swap
 

Look what i found. This is for 5.4 swaps and the like:

Heahs

4.6L DOHC
There are several different castings available for the DOHC heads. 4.6L & 5.4L heads will physically interchange, but the ports on the 5.4L heads are much bigger than the 4.6L heads. Neither the Cobra or Lincoln intake manifolds will work with this swap. If you were able to get the intake to bolt on, there still is not enough material around the ports to enable port matching to the larger navigator heads. Our single plane 4.6L intakes were designed with enough material to allow for this swap. The Navigator heads ports are too big for a naturally aspirated 4.6L street car but may make for some impressive horsepower on forced induction cars.

These heads can be divided into 2 basic designs pre-1999 twin port heads (also known as the "B" head) and post-1999 tumble port heads (also known as the "C" head). These 2 heads are interchangeable on any of the 4.6L blocks although it is usually not financially feasible to do this swap because it entails swapping intake manifolds as well. Both heads are very good castings with the tumble port heads getting the nod for making more high end horsepower. The heads on the Lincoln are the same castings as are used on the Cobra.

If you are building your DOHC engine for use in a truck or heavy car, you will probably be happier with the twin port heads. These heads with their IMRC plates, create better torque and at a lower RPM than the tumble port heads without severely limiting hi-end horsepower. These heads respond well to a port and polish job. You can also pick up extra horsepower if your engine is a Lincoln, by swapping the intake manifold for an early Mustang Cobra intake.

The tumble port heads have been available since 1999. These heads were never offered on the Lincoln Mark series due to the cancellation of this model in 1998. These heads can be found on the front wheel drive Lincoln Continental. Maybe if you come across a cheap Continental engine it's not such a bad deal after all. Obviously these heads are also available on the Mustang Cobra. The Cobra heads were modified for 2003. They are supposed to flow better on the intake and exhaust than the early castings.
The best heads offered to date have never been installed on a production vehicle. These are available on the FR500 crate engine. The heads on the FR500 are available from FRPP under part #'s M-6049-T46 and M-6050-T46. These heads are bare, but FRPP does sell a hi-lift (12mm) camshaft kit that includes cams, valves, springs, retainers, and rockers under part # M-6550-T46. The heads sell for about 800.00 each and the cam kit is 1495.00


All of the tumble port heads respond well to a port and polish job. Unless you have money to burn, justifying the additional expense of the FR500 heads may be difficult. The standard heads can be made to provide all the flow necessary for even the highest horsepower applications.

5.4L DOHC
Twin port heads have never been offered for the 5.4L engines. You are limited to the Navigator heads unless you come across a set of Cobra R heads (you might have a better shot at hitting the lottery). Being limited to the Navigator heads is not a bad thing as these heads flow a large amount of air. Port and polish these heads and you will see port flow in excess 325 cfm. There is no horsepower to be gained by trying to run Cobra heads, the Navigator heads with their large ports allows the use of much larger intake runners. Below is an outline of the commonly available DOHC heads.

4.6L DOHC
There are several different castings available for the DOHC heads. 4.6L & 5.4L heads will physically interchange, but the ports on the 5.4L heads are much bigger than the 4.6L heads. Neither the Cobra or Lincoln intake manifolds will work with this swap. If you were able to get the intake to bolt on, there still is not enough material around the ports to enable port matching to the larger navigator heads. Our single plane 4.6L intakes were designed with enough material to allow for this swap. The Navigator heads ports are too big for a naturally aspirated 4.6L street car but may make for some impressive horsepower on forced induction cars.

These heads can be divided into 2 basic designs pre-1999 twin port heads (also known as the "B" head) and post-1999 tumble port heads (also known as the "C" head). These 2 heads are interchangeable on any of the 4.6L blocks although it is usually not financially feasible to do this swap because it entails swapping intake manifolds as well. Both heads are very good castings with the tumble port heads getting the nod for making more high end horsepower. The heads on the Lincoln are the same castings as are used on the Cobra.

If you are building your DOHC engine for use in a truck or heavy car, you will probably be happier with the twin port heads. These heads with their IMRC plates, create better torque and at a lower RPM than the tumble port heads without severely limiting hi-end horsepower. These heads respond well to a port and polish job. You can also pick up extra horsepower if your engine is a Lincoln, by swapping the intake manifold for an early Mustang Cobra intake.

The tumble port heads have been available since 1999. These heads were never offered on the Lincoln Mark series due to the cancellation of this model in 1998. These heads can be found on the front wheel drive Lincoln Continental. Maybe if you come across a cheap Continental engine it's not such a bad deal after all. Obviously these heads are also available on the Mustang Cobra. The Cobra heads were modified for 2003. They are supposed to flow better on the intake and exhaust than the early castings.
The best heads offered to date have never been installed on a production vehicle. These are available on the FR500 crate engine. The heads on the FR500 are available from FRPP under part #'s M-6049-T46 and M-6050-T46. These heads are bare, but FRPP does sell a hi-lift (12mm) camshaft kit that includes cams, valves, springs, retainers, and rockers under part # M-6550-T46. The heads sell for about 800.00 each and the cam kit is 1495.00


All of the tumble port heads respond well to a port and polish job. Unless you have money to burn, justifying the additional expense of the FR500 heads may be difficult. The standard heads can be made to provide all the flow necessary for even the highest horsepower applications.

Cooling System

The 4.6L, 5.4L & 6.8L cast iron blocks use a cooling system that is different from the one that is used on the aluminum blocks. The aluminum blocks use a bypass hose (this is the hose that runs in front of the engine to the thermostat housing) to keep flow constant through the block to help eliminate hot spots. This is due to aluminum being more susceptible to hot spots than is cast iron. If you are running an aluminum block do not eliminate this hose. The cast iron blocks utilize a conventional cooling system (no bypass hose).

Oil System


The oil pump used on modular engines is what's referred to as a gerotor pump. It contains two internal gears with the middle one being driven by the crank. The clearance between the sides of the gears and the internal sides of the oil pump are critical. These pumps are not as robust as the pumps used on the older push rod Ford's. If any debris gets into the oil pump it will gall the sides of the aluminum housing, creating a situation where the pump will not prime. If you are reusing an oil pump be sure to pull the cover off the pump for a close inspection of the housing for galling. Replacing this pump after installation of the engine is not a fun job.
There have also been failures of the powdered metal gears utilized in these pumps when used in
hi-performance applications. There are billet pump gears being offered by some vendors to address this problem, do a search on Google

RE: 5.4 swap
 

You know what i say. F*ck the 5.4 i want the 6.8! MWAHAHA! V-10 Mustang! It has been done before i just need a totally custome k member and all that good stuff haha. oh wait wait here it is: Twin Turbo 6.8! Too bad they dont make a 4v 6.8. Now that would be something.

RE: 5.4 swap
 

Look at this they make a custom oil pan for the swap:

http://www.cantonracingproducts.com/pr_15786.html

RE: 5.4 swap
 

Ok im looking around and there are a lot of ppl that have put the 6.8 triton with a cobra t-56 in a fox body and a few that have put it in sn95's. Haha thats awesome

RE: 5.4 swap
 

Ben, where did you get your information? I would LOVE to visit that site and call some people.

There are some things that I think I know about Triton 5.4's:

I was under the impression that Tritons are only SOHC, but in 2004, there was a 3V version (still SOHC, tho). Lincoln came out with the DOHC version of the 5.4 (and 4.6 for Aviators) that was called the InTech. The Navigator DOHC heads were exclusive to that app, but the Aviator DOHC heads were the same casting as 03-04 Cobras and Mach 1's. 95-98 Triton 2V 5.4's made 235HP/330tq. 99-03 5.4's made 260HP/350tq. The 3V Triton made 300HP/365tq. Lightning Tritons made anywhere from 360-380HP :D, and H/D Tritons made 340HP. 5.4 InTechs made 300HP/355tq. I'm sure all of these factory numbers are conservative! ;)

Sounds like the 4.6->5.4 swap is a lot like the 5.0->5.8 swap - taller deck heights = different hood and intake (unless you have an adapter), but lots of things bolt up - bellhousing, accessories, etc.

With all of this seeming interchangability, the big question in my mind is what about engine management? Would, say, an 5.4 InTech drop in a 1997 Mustang and you could hook the harness right up? I know that the intakes would have to be changed, but to how? With the adapter mentioned, is the sky the limit? Just adapt the Mustang intake to the 5.4, plug in the wire clips, and you're away? That seems way too easy.

But what about accessories? Just bolt on the brackets from the stang for A/C, P/S, alternator, etc with no problems? Again, seems too easy or it seems a lot more people would be doing it (for the torque).

Also, what about bolt ons mods? Do underdrive pulleys just go right on? CAI? Bigger MAF and injectors?

I understand that hood and shock tower clearance will usually be an issue - just get a cowl hood and use special headers, no?

Clearly, if these answers are as simple as they seem to be right now, then I am going to move on this 97 and this truck Triton out of a 2000 F-150 (260/350) or find me a 96-04ish GT and start looking for either a low mile Navigator engine or an 04 3V. Jeez, that would be AWESOME!!!

I think it's a Triton out of a 2000 F-150, which would make it a SOHC with 260 HP and 350 ft lbs of torque. Bolt on mods on that would OWN!!!

RE: 5.4 swap
 

One additional thing is that the InTech 5.4's and the 2004 5.4's have a forged bottom end. Can you say boost?!?!

I have to be missing something here. This is way too cool.

P.S. - Wikipedia = teh pwnage

RE: 5.4 swap
 

You're spoiling my secret plans, groundpounder [8D]

Drop the link to that wikipedia article when you can, if I can confirm that the newer InTech engines really do have a fully forged bottom end, my plan will be coming to fruition MUCH sooner than I had originally anticipated... I was planning on having to drop for forged internals and having to tear the engine down and rebuild it myself (key to saving money :D) before dropping it in my stang.

RE: 5.4 swap
 

Here 'tis

TRITONS = teh torque

RE: 5.4 swap
 

ive been looking into this myself. i know everything should fit pritty good, shorty headers will be needed, but thats no big deal. i would love a 5.4 dohc.

RE: 5.4 swap
 

i looked into a 5.4... but was told they were to much work.. wish i knew now.. haha.

RE: 5.4 swap
 

Would it not be cheaper, (and more practical), to run a built dohc 4.6 with high boost? Lighter, higher revs and way more hp than a Lightning 5.4

Keep the 5.4's and 6.8's in the trucks.

Eventually, the added weight will cancel out the added power.

RE: 5.4 swap
 

it may or may not be cheaper, depending on what you can find.

RE: 5.4 swap
 

There is no replacement for displacement, but doing a motor swap (to a different engine) probably isn't gonna result in much of a cash savings in the end.

I could be way off base here, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say in the end the horsepower/dollar ratio isn't gonna be much different than going with a 4.6 build. Either way your gonna need deep pockets.

If your planning on keeping it (the 5.4) stock just forget it. As they stated above, almost everyone I have seen that keeps it near stock nets more torque, but about the same horsepower, and it ends up not being worth it.

If the 5.4 blocks you are talking about are avaliable at all, and not with a massive pricetag, AND they are forged it might be worth it, but I have a feelilng you are gonna end up paying 3k+ if not more for a forged assembly 5.4L out of a lincon ect.

RE: 5.4 swap
 

Excellent posts Ben790450. I learned a lot.

RE: 5.4 swap
 

Probably not, because when you say high boost, you're going to have to upgrade the bottom end of the 4.6 at some point, and the 5.4's come with forged bottom ends, plus 50 cubes. Yes, you do have the purchase price of the Triton to begin with, but that is offset by some number by the subsequent sale of the 4.6 that you removed. So no.
This is a tech thread about what it would take, not an opinion thread about whether a person should or shouldn't. Don't get me wrong - I'm not flaming you because of your opinion, Bob, but do you know if the wiring harness from a Triton will plug right into the Mustang's? Because that is my major question right now. Not whether the 2000 Cobra R, the Ford GT supercar, or the new Shelby GT 500 should have had a 4.6 instead of a 5.4
When? the difference is about 50 lbs, which is taken care of by the extra 40 HP and 63 lbs of torque. Before mods. See link to 300HP/365tq engine below.

You can only go as fast as your wallet!! :D With your ratio calculations, what did you come up with, since you're out there on that limb? Because I don't think you can forge the bottom end of a 4.6 and make it produce 300HP and 365 ft lbs of torque for $1,150 like the link to a Buy It Now auction like at the bottom of this post. NO way. And what if you get $500-600 for your removed engine? It's possible. Then you have spent a net of maybe $600 initially (I'm ignoring labor, fluids, blah blah blah etc) for 40 HP (300 v 260) and 63 lbs of torque (365 v 302). $15 per horse, $9.50 per ft lb and $12.25 per cube. What if you get $800-900 for the 4.6? Or more - $1,150!? That ratio falls and there's NO WAY you're going to forge a 4.6 and mod it to 300 HP for $5-600. All the work invovled in breaking it down, gaskets, blah - you're pulling the engine anyway to do all of that - so that's a wash - and you're always going to be spotting the 5.4 cubes and torque. This is a no brainer if I can get some answers.

That's an opinion, and this is a tech thread. You are starting out with a forged bottom end, 40 more HP (for the engine below), 49 more cubes and 63 more foot pounds of torque. BUT I digress. Do you have the answer to the wiring harness, intake (answered), CAI, A/C and P/S questions? Because if not.....
Ummmm nope. Here is an 04 F-150 engine that comes stock with a completely forged bottom end, 300 HP and a whopping 365 ft lbs of torque. Before mods.

3V Triton

TECH TECH TECH. I'm looking for unequivochal technical anwers to my technical questions. I mean, I'll start a new thread if I need to -- "Is it worth it to swap a 5.4 for a 4.6?" and we can fire away with the opinions. I need the technical ins and outs. Engine management, accessories, bolt ons....

Does anyone know who's done the swap? Someone mentioned it.

RE: 5.4 swap
 

all in all its up to the cash... IMO if your going to do the swap. theres no point in getting another 4.6 block, when for a few bux more, you can get a 5.4. if your gonna get a new engine, it might aswell be the best.

the argument here for most people i think is... weather the SWAP is worth it, not what your swaping...

i personally think it would be kick ass to say i have a 302 or 330 in my car...

it may or may not make more power, but hey. its different. and that makes it worth it in itself

RE: 5.4 swap
 

There is one reason to do a 5.4 or 6.8 swap: Torque. [sm=bling.gif] We all know that 4.6s suck for torque. Do the same bolt on mods to a 5.4 or 6.8 that you would to a 4.6 and your torque is well over 400. Shoot a 6.8 is already what like 450 trq and 300 hp stock. Thow a blower on there and call it a day! Its all about torque buddy. Thats why ppl do these swaps!!!! [sm=closed.gif]

(PS anyone who builds motors can tell you cast iron blocks arent that much heavier than alluminum blocks. And a cast iron block is stronger than even a forged alluminum block. Thats why ppl but cast iron blocks on REAL race applications. )

RE: 5.4 swap
 

I agree. I mean geez, if you're pulling the motor anyway.....Or what if you find one without an engine?!?!?!?!?!

I just have this nagging question about the engine management. These fuel injected, SOHC engines with there VCT and such - could get messy I think - what does it take to run them in another app? How can you electronically retro fit an 04 F-150 into an earlier model Mustang? Plug and play? Take the computer from the truck?


Now let's see if we can get some kick ass technical stuff going on in here.

RE: 5.4 swap
 

Yeah you just need to steal all the right sensors too. A 5.4 is the exact same thing as a 4.6 just different pistons and bore and stroke etc. Longer size block. Im sure they make retrofit kits for the 5.4 and 6.8 but you just have to do your reasearch and call around. The DOHC's are gonna be a little bit harder but you just really have to know what you're doing. Besides why the F would anyone put in a 4v aviator engine in when you could get a cobra engine with more aggressive cams. Thats the one problem we run into is these motors are not made to rev high and race. They are cammed for torque and pulling and hauling. Its still power but its not gonna be as great as ppl think. You need to do a cam swap. Like i saw this thing a long time ago where the put a duramax 300 hp 550 trq and an allison 5 speed auto in a vette. Very cool and could never hook up but it was the coolest thing ive ever seen. Hear that big ol turbo and diesel growl coming out of the vette's quad exhaust. Very interesting. Haha gee fella's lets just all go out and put 6.0 powerstrokes in our stangs! :eek:

RE: 5.4 swap
 

You are in error about the 3v engine assembly being forged. The CRANK is forged, but the rods and pistons are not. Here is a link:

http://www.fordtrucksonline.com/ford...gine-specs.htm

This engine is not going to stand up to anything close to the kind of abuse that a forged 4.6L (or 5.4L) assembly from the aftermarket is going to withstand.

The reason this engine assembly is making more power is the 3v head, plain and simple. I have yet to see a single 99-04 setup with a 3v engine assembly. The computer and harness is NOT gonna work with this engine, simply because it has variable cam timing (among other differences). There is no way to control the VCT with your stock 2v computer, so at the best (if it would work at all) you would have to just set the timing and leave it. This will result in either a loss in horsepower or torque (or both).

Trust me guys, if this was a viable swap, people would be doing it. You don't really think everyone would be forking up 2500+ for a forged shortblock assembly if they could buy one direct from ford that would handle the abuse for 1500 bucks do ya? Your not even close to being the first one to think of this, but it just doesn't result in that great of a performance increase.

Even IF you could hack the harness up and get it working, plus your 2v computer, your still stuck with a TRUCK engine. This setup is designed to make maximum horsepower and torque down low for towing etc, besides hauling around a very heavy truck. A 5000 RPM peak power output (and whats the redline?) is NOT a good setup for trying to drag race.

One last thing, keep in mind that all of these numbers are at the FLYWHEEL. It is pretty easy to get a 4.6L 2v engine to make 300 flywheel horsepower and 350 Ft/Lbs with just boltons. I was making 255/300 at the TIRE before a tune at just full boltons (exhaust, intake, pulleys). This is 293 hp and 345 ft/lb at the flywheel, and with a tune I am sure I could have passed 300/350. Obviously the same modifications would make more power on a 3v mustang engine, but we are back to the problems of install and acutally getting the mustang 3v compared to the truck one.

RE: 5.4 swap
 

if you wanted to dump in a cobra engine... could you just gank a cobra computer from the same year car, and stick it in? or would u be able to tinker with ur reg one?

RE: 5.4 swap
 

You can get the conversion plates at http://www.reichardracing.com/46to54adapter.php .... they will let ya put the intake on and still clear the hood...

RE: 5.4 swap
 

The swap isn't real hard, but I think you still have to replace the wiring harness. I haven't done it though, so I am not 100 percent sure.

Whats with all the motor swap threads lately though? I get the impression that people are thinking that they will save a ton of money and be able to do a cheap motor swap and have boatloads of horsepower. This is not gonna happen. For reference, a new cobra engine assembly with the roots blower is TEN GRAND.

We went to page 2 on the thread here, make sure you read my last post on page 1 (man I hate being the last post on a page). The 5.4L is NOT forged, and it isn't going to be a good idea to swap in a 5.4 truck motor.

RE: 5.4 swap
 

at no point do i think it will be simple or cheap. im going to make my car into a project car that im planning on doing for years. in no way am i going for a cheap cost effective way to gain power. if i was, my car would have nitrous. i want something customized, and unique.

RE: 5.4 swap
 

It just seems like there are a ton of motor swap threads lately. IMO, and its just my opinion, its not worth the massive hassle of doing a motor swap when you don't plan on exceeding the potential of the engine you have.

If you arn't looking for more than about 600 WHP FI, then just stick with the 2v. If you have some sort of problem with FI (a single ride in a FI car would change your mind :) then you should have bought a LS1

RE: 5.4 swap
 

i dont have a problem with FI... infact i plan on getting a blower, i would just like to be able to increase the PSI at the drags, and not have to worry about a 600hp cap.

i think someone just brought it up, and it caught alot of people attention as to if its possible or do able.

HELL if i could drop a 351 pushrod into my car, id do it in a heartbeat. but theres no way it would pass inspection with that, and im sure there would be a ton of fabrication work.

RE: 5.4 swap
 

well maybe you are the exception, but I think alot of people are expecting to be able to do some form of motor swap and come out way ahead on the dollar/horsepower scale.

The problem is, no matter if your running a 4v, a 2v, or a 3v, a 4.6 or a 5.4, you will still need to add forced induction to make anything over about 400 to the tire. I have heard of a couple 5.4 4v setups making more than 400 to the tire, but we are talking about a all out race engine that wouldn't even dream of seeing street duty.

You can realistically make somewhere around 550-600 whp with the stock heads on a 2v GT, and close to 700 WHP with a fully built engine (both assuming your running a blower). That should be good for low 10s easy with the right suspesion setup. I would wager that you could own a legit low 10 second street car and never get beat while out running around on saterday night.

RE: 5.4 swap
 

revisionist research proves you are correct - I missed that the first time through, and wikipedia does NOT say that the Tritons, any of them, have all forged bottom ends. Some of them do, and the InTechs do, but not the 3V's

Word. Like I've been saying all through this thread, engine management is the central issue, and someone needs to chip in with some straight been-there-done-that tech. Everything else for my purposes in this thread is noise.
Can a person get a 3V computer to work? To me, it seems impossible, thus all the questions. Let's forget about the 3V - personally, I think the electrical complexities of that swap (VCT) make it difficult if not impossible to pull off. I'm going to focus from here on the practical swap I'm looking at (a '99 5.4) and pie-in-the-sky swap of a Navigator InTech. but then you're talking about more bank. So it starts to become a wash and more change for change sake.
not trying to be the first. I was actually surprised that there weren't more threads on this as I am sure people have been thinking about it. The fact that it's not a common swap is why I have all the questions. If it were common, and it were as easy in detail is it seems on the surface, a boatload of people would be doing it and there would probably be a sticky with step-by-step. Or a kit available from a sponsor. The fact that not a lot of folks are doing it is telling. I'm trying to figure out why, and I think I am doing that.

Low end torque is good for the street. Strip racing, not as much. Not sure of the redline on 5.4's, but I've seen very decent street/strip cars shift between 5-6K

I have been speaking to flywheel-to-flywheel comparisons. I know it's not hard to get a 2V 4.6 to 300/350 flywheel. I'm just pointing out the same bolt-ons on a 5.4 would have similar effects, but with a better starting place.


I'm not sure which people you are referring to, but the author of this thread is not trying to cut costs as such. But anyone seeking the best HP bang for the buck has to do what I am doing: seek information and ask questions. Seek knowledge from those who have actually done it so others will know what to look for/avoid. I just blew it on the dollar/horsepower, FWIW, spending about $3,700 on a "refresher" rebuild. I'm not one for cutting corners or spending money unnecessarily. I'll spend it, but I want to spend it right.
I'm not sure about that one. I don't think a 400HP 5.4 would seem like an all out, unstreetable race engine. That's does not seem all that radical to me.

All of this actually started because I have a line on a 98GT cheap ($2K and very tired) and a low mile 5.4 out of a 1999 F-150. As I did more research and found out more about Tritons, the questions morphed a little, which is OK. I'm learning a lot here.

I felt all along that the 3V 5.4 with its VCT would be an eletrical nightmare, and I still feel that way even though no one has come in and said, "I tried that and it won't work." I'm not so sure about a Navigator InTech, though.

But a "run of the mill" 2V 5.4 might work. Maybe not the 4V InTech 5.4 or the 3V almost surely or anything like that. I still don't have the answers I originally sought - will the Mustang computer run the 5.4 engine wiring harness and will the accessories bolt on? In all of this, I think I can glean that the accessories will translate, but I still have a bee in my bonnet with the engine management question.

And I agree with you, 2000, if this was easy and cheap a lot of folks would be doing it. It's telling to me that very few are. But I want to talk to someone who has.

I'm just very turned on by the possiblity of putting a 5.4 in this car. I can buy the car for ~$2K, and the engine is just sitting in the shop of the guy that just built my 306. He wants to do this, standard bolt ons like upgrading the MAF and injectors, put some U/D pulleys on it, etc. then put about 6-8 psi on the Triton. I told him I would fund it, ask the questions to the 'experts' and go from there.

RE: 5.4 swap
 

The entire point is that there are dammed few advantages and alot of stuff on the negitive side.

On the plus side:

1. you will make more torque and a LITTLE more horsepower.

On the bottom side:

1. Its not really that much more displacement

2. Fitment issues

3. Lack of aftermarket support, espcailly the bottom end (how many aftermarket 5.4L forged assemblys have you seen?)

4. (big one here) you cannot make more power overall with the stock 5.4L shortblock compared to the stock 4.6L shortblock. Unless you get a lightning unit that is fully forged, you still tap out around 430-450 WHP, and then something breaks. Assuming you are going to add that 8~ PSI blower (espcially a intercooled one), your already there with a bolton on 4.6L.

5. Tuning problems

6. General PITA problems of having a car with a engine it did not come with.

So basically, unless you plan on swapping bottom ends either way (high rev n/a setup or big boost setup) your just wasting your time. I am highly doubtful you will make significantly more power with a stock shortblock 5.4L n/a (espcailly with stock cams/heads/intake) than you will with a 4.6L. Like mentioned above, a person on this forum did it and ended up with nearly identical WHP, but about 40 more RWTQ. Call me crazy, but 40 ft/lbs isn't worth a engine swap and all the hassle and expense that comes with it.

I guess I can ALMOST see doing it if you have a car with a shot engine and the prices are going to be similar (I am doubtful). But all the talk lately about pulling a perfectly good engine (not you) and swapping into a 5.4L is just dreaming. Like I said, if the advatages were that great, everyone would be doing it.

RE: 5.4 swap
 

wow, there is a ton of info in here covering dozens of questions Ive had about this subject. Maybe this point was brought up, but I missed it, but what computer/wiring harness would you have to use for this swap? I guess it depends on exactly which heads you put on? How much would you have to spend on a computer?

RE: 5.4 swap
 

Good advice from an experienced member. I am alkways intrigued to do a swap. I also like having something different. I have one question, maybe 2. Is there a 4.6 Lincoln motor that is a 4v and will bolt into my '99 and if so what year is best and what computer would I need? Is this again an electrical nightmare?
Sure does make a $4K Kenne-bell SC look a lot more attractive. THANKS! mark

RE: 5.4 swap
 

2000GT4.6 just seems to like to rain on everyone's ideas. The InTech engines are forged (5.4 4v) and one can be found used for $3500, for brand new (COMPLETE ENGINE) for $5000... Sure, it's not blown, but it's forged... drop a blower on there and you've got more power than you know what to do with for less.

1. If you're doing this swap for the displacement alone, it's misguided... the extra displacement is just a bonus

2. It fits fine, intake adaptor plates and it even clears the stock hood

3. There's plenty of aftermarket support, even for the bottom end... Yes there are 5.4 forged (even billet) rotating assemblies around, you just need to do a TINY bit of searching.

4. Biggest reason for switching is, if you're going to rebuild the engine anyway and can get a junked 5.4 that needs a rebuild for almost nothing, it won't cost you but $500 more in the end. Plus, the InTech engines are forged already, no rebuild necessary. I've already covered how it doesn't make any more power with 2v heads (volumetric efficency, the 2v heads don't flow enough for a 4.6, let alone a 5.4... but I'm talking a 4v here).

5. Tuning problems? Non-existant. It's the EXACT SAME MOTOR as your 4.6, with slightly more displacement, there's no difference in the tuning in the end.

6. PITA problems of swapping a modular motor that is 99% the same as the one you have in there? You'll have to give me some examples that will actually happen, because once it's in there, it'll run just as well as it did in whatever vehicle it came from, and just as well as your old motor.

Where else are you going to find a 4v engine forged for $5000... complete from oil pan to throttle body? When you can get back to me on that, let me know. :) It's not giving you more power out of the box, but it's lots more POTENTIAL, which, I don't know about you, is important to me.

Edit: From my research, it's too good to be true... there has to be some catch, but I'm yet to find it :)

RE: 5.4 swap
 

Bump

Why isn't anyone discussing the lightning motor? Forged, not cammed for towing, Is there something i'm missing?

RE: 5.4 swap
 

I am not "raining" on anyones ideas. But its pretty arrogant to think that they are anything new here. People HAVE though of this before (many times)

Listen, if this was doable, and it offered not only the gains, but the cost savings that you describe, WHY is everyone not doing it? WHY do no not see ANY 5.4L 99-00 mustangs, either in real life or in magazines?

Find me a link that says the entire rotating assembly on the intec engines is forged. Everything I see calls out a forged crank and thats it, nothing about the rod OR the pistons. Once you get that, give me ONE link that says anything about supporting the powerlevels that a aftermarket assembly/03 cobra assembly will (or hell even more than the stock 4.6L GT assembly). I have been unable to find ANY information on this, leading me to beleive that it simply isn't anything spectacular. If it COULD support better powerlevels it would be a hot item.

Hell, explain why all the guys with the 03/04 cobras, with boatloads of money in turbo kits and boltons, plus those wonderfully flowing 4v heads, arn't going to 5.4L assemblys to make more power (or even when they break something?)

The gains simply ARE NOT there. You will NOT make significantly more power on a boltons only car, and I have never seen ANY evidence that you will make more power even with a fully built/blown engine using the 2v or 4v heads that are available.

It simply doesn't make since. You cannot exceed about 600-650 to the tire with any engine that has a set of 2v heads on it, 4.6 OR 5.4L (with the exception of a turbo car). You can make 900+ WHP on a turbo 4.6L (stock displacement) and the 4v heads. Exactly where does the 5.4 make since, and where does it fit in?

The 4.6L will do everything the 5.4L will, with the possible exception of a all out n/a setup. You have extra expense for what exactly?

RE: 5.4 swap
 

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