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Will headers cause a car to run lean?
Will LT's cause the A/F to lean out?
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RE: Will headers cause a car to run lean?
well I dunno - I ran rich - but ever since my long tubes if I dont drive pretty much every day - it will have an episiode in the morning for a few mins - like it will start choking and want to die down - so I have to drive a round at 2-3k rpms untill the computer remaps I guess... Im not sure why it does that - if anybody else knows I'd like to hear it - but I do know that I could stand a dyno tune - I have a diablo - its good enough to do - but i think I could get alot more power from a custom dyno tune - but Im waiting for forced induction before I do that.
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RE: Will headers cause a car to run lean?
i've been running pretty rich since i installed the lt's.
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RE: Will headers cause a car to run lean?
Do the smart thing and SKIP the LT's. They will not add any power. A vendor with a dyno told me that headers should be the LAST mod if you want to get the last bit of power from the 4.6. Emphasize the BIT! Another member here has a brother with a dyno and his BBK's added ZERO power even dyno tuned.
Ford did a good job with this motor/car. The exhaust has an H-pipe, 2.25" MANDREL bent tubing. If it were me I would get a pair of Dynomax mufflers welded in place of the stockers, maybe replace the mid pipe if you can run without cats where you are. I've got a PYPES catted X-pipe and catback with straight thru Race Pro mufflers that I would be willing to sell as I would do the weld in mufflers myself. I would keep my X-pipe so the catback is available. mark |
RE: Will headers cause a car to run lean?
ive seen dynos proving BBK adding 21HP....it was a post not to long ago....and im getting the LT's for a little more sound out of my car to....
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RE: Will headers cause a car to run lean?
ORIGINAL: sweet99 Do the smart thing and SKIP the LT's. They will not add any power. A vendor with a dyno told me that headers should be the LAST mod if you want to get the last bit of power from the 4.6. Emphasize the BIT! Another member here has a brother with a dyno and his BBK's added ZERO power even dyno tuned. Ford did a good job with this motor/car. The exhaust has an H-pipe, 2.25" MANDREL bent tubing. If it were me I would get a pair of Dynomax mufflers welded in place of the stockers, maybe replace the mid pipe if you can run without cats where you are. I've got a PYPES catted X-pipe and catback with straight thru Race Pro mufflers that I would be willing to sell as I would do the weld in mufflers myself. I would keep my X-pipe so the catback is available. mark What?? What vendor told you this? "Another member here has a brother with a dyno and his BBK's added ZERO power even dyno tuned" Nothing about that raised any red flags to you? The my brothers inlaws uncle henry's best friends sister information is always wrong. ALWAYS! Sorry Sweet99, there is a LOT of members here who have installed Headers, gotten a dyno tune and picked up 15-20RWHP from a complete LT/Mid-pipe setup. I hope nobody takes this advice from you. I believe I firmly own the rights to the ground I'm standing with you, I recall challenging the rather bold claims you make about your CAI and I don't recall your method of testing & getting an accurate result for the claims you've made ever being proven. |
RE: Will headers cause a car to run lean?
Sweet99, i'm sorry but every post i've seen you make shows that you're an idiot.
To be honest though... you do need a dyno tune or atleast a tune setup for LT's to maximize the gains. Before I supercharged mine, i only raised my avg mph probably about .75mph per run after the LT's and midpipe. The gains were not that noticeable. It reved much quicker I just think the computer needed some help. I got my handheld tuner before the dyno tune and he threw a NA tune on for LT's. Definatly noticed a difference there. Oh also sweet99. My tuner specifically told when we were dyno'ing my car, his project car (or someone elses i forget) picked up like 8rwhp/10rwtq over the baseline without a tune. After the dynotune it was something like 16rwhp/22rwtq. It was tuned before as well. |
RE: Will headers cause a car to run lean?
ORIGINAL: sweet99 Do the smart thing and SKIP the LT's. They will not add any power. A vendor with a dyno told me that headers should be the LAST mod if you want to get the last bit of power from the 4.6. Emphasize the BIT! Another member here has a brother with a dyno and his BBK's added ZERO power even dyno tuned. Ford did a good job with this motor/car. The exhaust has an H-pipe, 2.25" MANDREL bent tubing. If it were me I would get a pair of Dynomax mufflers welded in place of the stockers, maybe replace the mid pipe if you can run without cats where you are. I've got a PYPES catted X-pipe and catback with straight thru Race Pro mufflers that I would be willing to sell as I would do the weld in mufflers myself. I would keep my X-pipe so the catback is available. mark |
RE: Will headers cause a car to run lean?
ORIGINAL: czwalga00gt Sweet99, i'm sorry but every post i've seen you make shows that you're an idiot. To be honest though... you do need a dyno tune or atleast a tune setup for LT's to maximize the gains. Before I supercharged mine, i only raised my avg mph probably about .75mph per run after the LT's and midpipe. The gains were not noticeable. I got my handheld tuner before the dyno tune and he threw a NA tune on for LT's. Definatly noticed a difference there. BTW, I had very noticable gains even untuned with the exhaust work. Never got the car tuned until the cams went in, but I am sure it would have made even more. My LTs thru the tune of slightly to rich. |
RE: Will headers cause a car to run lean?
Do the smart thing and SKIP the LT's. They will not add any power. A vendor with a dyno told me that headers should be the LAST mod if you want to get the last bit of power from the 4.6. Emphasize the BIT! Another member here has a brother with a dyno and his BBK's added ZERO power even dyno tuned. Ford did a good job with this motor/car. The exhaust has an H-pipe, 2.25" MANDREL bent tubing. If it were me I would get a pair of Dynomax mufflers welded in place of the stockers, maybe replace the mid pipe if you can run without cats where you are. I've got a PYPES catted X-pipe and catback with straight thru Race Pro mufflers that I would be willing to sell as I would do the weld in mufflers myself. I would keep my X-pipe so the catback is available. mark |
RE: Will headers cause a car to run lean?
Right, an idiot. **** in, **** out....not his fault. The only way a header swop would NOT add power (maybe) is if you are bone stock and install some halfass no-name aftermarket shorties. Maybe you would then only pick up 5 or less HP. The key is, as mentioned above, you need to retune your engine via a dyno or some sort of computer flash unit to achieve the best results. Long tubes definitely add power. End of story.
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RE: Will headers cause a car to run lean?
If you get longtubes, I would get a tune to go with it. This way your A/F is good... you dont want to blow things up now.. haha... Although, I will say while I did Longtubes on my 2v, and YES they added power... I wouldn't do them again if i had the car, unless I did the work myself. You will only see about 10rwhp (over and beyond the catback and midpipe), and imo, for 1k+ and then a tune, its not worth it. The other bad things about lt's is that if you have to drop your tranny for any reason, you have to take them apart too. There are things i'd do before longtubes, if i had to do it over again in my 2v, and i will be doing in my cobra... just my opinion. I just personally can't base 10 extra rwhp for over 1k... that's just not a good idea, atleast imo. Now if you can do all the work yourself, you'll save ATLEAST 400 bucks in labor, so have at it!
but in the end, I would recommend everyone gets tuned after header install. If your to lean you'll blow something up, and if your to rich your leaving valuable power on the table, and can still damage stuff. |
RE: Will headers cause a car to run lean?
Zero chance you will damage the engine with just a header install, or even running a untuned full boltons car. Every one I have seen is rich, and besides it would have to be REAL lean to damage a N/A 2v car.
My dumbass shop put a tune in my car and told me to drive it home and back to break in the rear gears. I was at a 15:1 A/F ratio, and not knowing any better had been getting on it. Was down to like 230 WHP lol, dumbasses. But no damage to the car. Its real hard to blowup a n/a car with just a bad fuel ratio. It would have to be running like **** and pinging really hard, and you better know to get off it if its doing that. |
RE: Will headers cause a car to run lean?
2000 - You just never know. You know there have been 2v's, and 4v's out there that will blow really easy... not only on how it's driven while lean/rich - but also, how it was driven before that.
Yes, running to rich can cause damage to the interior of the motor, might take a lil bit longer then being to lean - but it CAN HAPPEN. Personally, when it comes to my cars, i'd rather be safe then sorry... spend more now, to avoid spending more later. So that's how I dish out advice. |
RE: Will headers cause a car to run lean?
wow... just wow... until you've had the mods yourself, please don't tell someone they do or don't work. i used to listen to people that said CAIs give like 6-8RWHP. WRONG! try 3-4. i also listened to the whole "get a 70mm throttle body and plenum, especially if you're supercharged! you'll get like 20RWHP in a supercharged car!!". not even close! try 6RWHP. yeah.. you're a tard.
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RE: Will headers cause a car to run lean?
bustin out the whoopin stick, lol.
ORIGINAL: nanaki wow... just wow... until you've had the mods yourself, please don't tell someone they do or don't work. i used to listen to people that said CAIs give like 6-8RWHP. WRONG! try 3-4. i also listened to the whole "get a 70mm throttle body and plenum, especially if you're supercharged! you'll get like 20RWHP in a supercharged car!!". not even close! try 6RWHP. yeah.. you're a tard. |
RE: Will headers cause a car to run lean?
So would buying an SCT Xcal2 be better to buy before headers?
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RE: Will headers cause a car to run lean?
Did you just recalibrate your speedo when you got your gears??
I would get it tuned at the time you get headers installed... but, I might even go another route like I said... as far as other mods.. |
RE: Will headers cause a car to run lean?
ORIGINAL: nanaki i also listened to the whole "get a 70mm throttle body and plenum, especially if you're supercharged! you'll get like 20RWHP in a supercharged car!!". not even close! try 6RWHP. yeah.. you're a tard. I guess I can rule that out... |
RE: Will headers cause a car to run lean?
75mm tb/plenum will net you 6-8rwhp depending on your tune. 20hp at the engine maybe :)
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RE: Will headers cause a car to run lean?
yeah, so far LT's are BY FAR the best thing i have done to my car.(gears comming soon after TKO500) but its a totally different car with LT's on it. and i Run lean to. maybee a Dyno Tune will Fix??
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RE: Will headers cause a car to run lean?
ORIGINAL: sweet99 Do the smart thing and SKIP the LT's. They will not add any power. A vendor with a dyno told me that headers should be the LAST mod if you want to get the last bit of power from the 4.6. Emphasize the BIT! Another member here has a brother with a dyno and his BBK's added ZERO power even dyno tuned. Ford did a good job with this motor/car. The exhaust has an H-pipe, 2.25" MANDREL bent tubing. If it were me I would get a pair of Dynomax mufflers welded in place of the stockers, maybe replace the mid pipe if you can run without cats where you are. I've got a PYPES catted X-pipe and catback with straight thru Race Pro mufflers that I would be willing to sell as I would do the weld in mufflers myself. I would keep my X-pipe so the catback is available. mark |
RE: Will headers cause a car to run lean?
just adding my headers before any tune was a 18hp gain on the dyno! may i suggest getting a dyno tune after headers are installed, therefore your a/f ratio can be checked and worked out while on the dyno.
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RE: Will headers cause a car to run lean?
ORIGINAL: xxkazp3rxx 2000 - You just never know. You know there have been 2v's, and 4v's out there that will blow really easy... not only on how it's driven while lean/rich - but also, how it was driven before that. Yes, running to rich can cause damage to the interior of the motor, might take a lil bit longer then being to lean - but it CAN HAPPEN. Personally, when it comes to my cars, i'd rather be safe then sorry... spend more now, to avoid spending more later. So that's how I dish out advice. And there is also no way you will do damage to your engine running it too rich. There is simply no way you could get the tune so rich that there might be engine damage (not sure exactly how running rich would damage it either) and still have the car acutally run down the road. |
RE: Will headers cause a car to run lean?
ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6 ORIGINAL: xxkazp3rxx 2000 - You just never know. You know there have been 2v's, and 4v's out there that will blow really easy... not only on how it's driven while lean/rich - but also, how it was driven before that. Yes, running to rich can cause damage to the interior of the motor, might take a lil bit longer then being to lean - but it CAN HAPPEN. Personally, when it comes to my cars, i'd rather be safe then sorry... spend more now, to avoid spending more later. So that's how I dish out advice. And there is also no way you will do damage to your engine running it too rich. There is simply no way you could get the tune so rich that there might be engine damage (not sure exactly how running rich would damage it either) and still have the car acutally run down the road. |
RE: Will headers cause a car to run lean?
ORIGINAL: JD1969 ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6 ORIGINAL: xxkazp3rxx 2000 - You just never know. You know there have been 2v's, and 4v's out there that will blow really easy... not only on how it's driven while lean/rich - but also, how it was driven before that. Yes, running to rich can cause damage to the interior of the motor, might take a lil bit longer then being to lean - but it CAN HAPPEN. Personally, when it comes to my cars, i'd rather be safe then sorry... spend more now, to avoid spending more later. So that's how I dish out advice. And there is also no way you will do damage to your engine running it too rich. There is simply no way you could get the tune so rich that there might be engine damage (not sure exactly how running rich would damage it either) and still have the car acutally run down the road. But there simply isn't any way a set of headers will do this to your car. |
RE: Will headers cause a car to run lean?
I never said it would. I simply said, that it could contribute - anytime you modify your car (N/A or not) you should have it recalibrated - not only for optimal performance, but to keep your car running in prime condition. I am not saying that if he doesn't get it tuned that it would blow up tomorrow or anything like that. I don't know about you but most people want there cars running for a long, long time - how do you think all these engines stay alive for as long as they do? Because the owners take great care of them.
Again, I wasn't saying any of this to fix a problem that would be created in the near future, but in the future. Being to lean will cause a big problem soon, and it doesn't have to be 15.5+ everytime, cars have blown up on mixtures richer then that... Having all that crap in your engine is what creates big problems later... It does happen. Very rarely, but it does happen. You just think it "can't" happen to you. Which if you really do think that, you're in for a surprise. I am done defending my point. Take it for what it's worth. Oh, and also - Whoever said that Headers was the best thing they've done to thier car - you need to get in the shop more :D. Oh sidebar: if you're running rich, you're also leaving valuable horsepower on the table. Do yourself a favor and get a tune, a real tune - not one of these mail order ones. |
RE: Will headers cause a car to run lean?
ORIGINAL: xxkazp3rxx I never said it would. I simply said, that it could contribute - anytime you modify your car (N/A or not) you should have it recalibrated - not only for optimal performance, but to keep your car running in prime condition. I am not saying that if he doesn't get it tuned that it would blow up tomorrow or anything like that. I don't know about you but most people want there cars running for a long, long time - how do you think all these engines stay alive for as long as they do? Because the owners take great care of them. Again, I wasn't saying any of this to fix a problem that would be created in the near future, but in the future. Being to lean will cause a big problem soon, and it doesn't have to be 15.5+ everytime, cars have blown up on mixtures richer then that... Having all that crap in your engine is what creates big problems later... It does happen. Very rarely, but it does happen. You just think it "can't" happen to you. Which if you really do think that, you're in for a surprise. I am done defending my point. Take it for what it's worth. Oh, and also - Whoever said that Headers was the best thing they've done to thier car - you need to get in the shop more :D. Oh sidebar: if you're running rich, you're also leaving valuable horsepower on the table. Do yourself a favor and get a tune, a real tune - not one of these mail order ones. running a n.a 2v car with full boltons including the LTs will not hurt it. It will also run forever like this. People are telling you things about your blown 03/04 there, and its true, but it simply is not with the 2v engine. You are not gonna see a n/a 2v pop with a 15.5 A/F ratio because of the engine leaning out. It isn't gonna run good, but no harm will come of it. The a/f ratio is simply not that important (so far as engine damage) on a n/a 4.6L unless it is WAY out of wack. Its just very hard to do any damage on a n/a engine this way. Regardless, you will pick up power from a tune to bring the a/f ratio in line. I would recommend anyone who is at a stopping point with boltons (aka car will be like that for awhile) to get a custom dyno tune. But if you plan on getting more parts in a few months I would skip it. |
RE: Will headers cause a car to run lean?
The only thing im adding to this.. is this... I am not talking about my experiances with my Cobra. I am referring to things about a 2v, if you remember - I had a 2004 GT - that included LT headers... and I was also using a close friends 03' GT as a personal example without saying it - He had my setup almost exactly - minus tune. He needed a new motor because he was running much to lean, and it popped - he gave me a nice laundry list of things that went wrong. The A/F was in the 15's I believe.. I'd have to ask him when I see him, if he remembers... Again, I never said it happens a lot, but it does happen - that's it. 2000, I respect your opinion on here, and it shows you know what you're talking about - but i think sometimes you forget about the exceptions to the rule. By rule - you're right, but rules are made to be broken.
I stand by my point, that headers are one of the last things i'd do. Honestly, because cams NEED a tune, I would probably do headers + cams at the same time, but not before I put in a better clutch and made sure my tranny was ok... well that's assuming you want to do cams... |
RE: Will headers cause a car to run lean?
when i installed my headers over a year ago.... my car gained alot of top end and mid power.... it felt quicker and torquier. and also had an awesome sound...
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RE: Will headers cause a car to run lean?
any thoughts on why my car gets the hickups if it sits a few days...?
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RE: Will headers cause a car to run lean?
I plan on getting cams by the end of the summer. I dont want to spend $500 on a tune until I get cams. Unfortunately, the place that knows mustangs around here charges $300 for the first time of tuning plus $200 for the tune. I dont really know why there is that $300 charge, but I might look at a few more shops before I have it tuned to see if anywhere else is a little bit cheaper. MC racing is the name of the shop btw if anybody has heard of it.
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RE: Will headers cause a car to run lean?
ORIGINAL: xxkazp3rxx The only thing im adding to this.. is this... I am not talking about my experiances with my Cobra. I am referring to things about a 2v, if you remember - I had a 2004 GT - that included LT headers... and I was also using a close friends 03' GT as a personal example without saying it - He had my setup almost exactly - minus tune. He needed a new motor because he was running much to lean, and it popped - he gave me a nice laundry list of things that went wrong. The A/F was in the 15's I believe.. I'd have to ask him when I see him, if he remembers... Again, I never said it happens a lot, but it does happen - that's it. 2000, I respect your opinion on here, and it shows you know what you're talking about - but i think sometimes you forget about the exceptions to the rule. By rule - you're right, but rules are made to be broken. I stand by my point, that headers are one of the last things i'd do. Honestly, because cams NEED a tune, I would probably do headers + cams at the same time, but not before I put in a better clutch and made sure my tranny was ok... well that's assuming you want to do cams... It could have been anything, a loss of oil pressure, overrev, anything, but his LT headers didn't cause the engine to blow up. |
RE: Will headers cause a car to run lean?
2000 - you're not reading what im saying - im not saying LT headers did, or will do it. Very well could've been something else wrong. I just know that the Ford mechanic, and the Speed shop he took it to both said it was because of a lean a/f mixture (Ford still covered it, so don't say they were trying to weasle out of covering it). I just know what im told man, lol - i'll be really honest - I know nothing about interiors of the engines, and little about what is to lean/rich. but you're not reading, and we all know you can read. I never once said that Longtube headers will hurt your car. What i've been saying is about the tune and the A/F mixture. That a car being to lean obviously can hurt your car, and being to rich can too. Which it can. I don't know why you're dragging this on still, it's like beating a dead horse. I say things, and you just ignore what I say and come back with something that's totally irrelevant to what I had previously said. The orginal topic was about headers making the car lean, if anything we've already established that if anything it'd run rich - which can be bad for the motor and performance, as you're leaving horsepower on the table with a rich tune. Again, im done with this topic, enjoy arguing a point that nobody has brought up. You've proved yourself right, against yourself... nice waste of energy, and even bigger one that im still looking at this thread.
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RE: Will headers cause a car to run lean?
the point is that none of the boltons will cause the car to go lean or rich enough to acutally damage the car. That, and a n/a 2v will have to be WAY off to acutally damage the engine. So far off that it would simply run like total ass, ping like crazy, all things you would immediatly notice (well before damage occured)
How the hell did the ford tech even know what the a/f ratio was? He was just blowing smoke up your friends ass. The engine is already blown, and he is telling you its leaned out at xx a/f ratio? Hell, the ford shops cannot even check the a/f ratio anyway. Your friend just got unlucky and had something else go wrong, or a bad motor to start with. His a/f ratio being at 15:1 did not destroy the engine. Hell, there are plenty of cars that come out of the factory running 14.2:1 or leaner..... |
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