75 MM TB
12-03-2006, 12:45 AM
#11
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Posts: 104
RE: 75 MM TB
upgrades not needed. i ran a p&p T/B and plenum with stock maf. after everything else got done i got a T/B and plenum then i ran across a good deal on a C&L MAF w/ the black(stock) sample tube along with the filter and intake pipe. i noticed a stronger pull after 3800 to redline.
12-03-2006, 01:46 AM
#13
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Posts: 2,791
RE: 75 MM TB
ORIGINAL: Mustang_NTriangle
I just installed my 75 MM BBK TB and BBK upper intake, but I do not have a whistle. I also have K&N CAI. You must have a leak. I like the throttle response over stock I can notice a difference. Next mod will be BBK pulley kit.
I just installed my 75 MM BBK TB and BBK upper intake, but I do not have a whistle. I also have K&N CAI. You must have a leak. I like the throttle response over stock I can notice a difference. Next mod will be BBK pulley kit.
12-03-2006, 02:02 AM
#14
Mustang Nazi
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Texas, baby
Posts: 13,444
RE: 75 MM TB
ORIGINAL: 96GT226410
Calm down Code... The computer IS NOT calibrated for a larger MAF and injectors. The larger MAF is sending signals to the computer in accordance to how the MAF is "calibrated". MAF's that are said to be "calibrated" for a certain size injector are really just "tricking" the EEC. Lets use, for example, a Pro-M 77 "calibrated " for 30lb injectors: As far as the computer is concerned it thinks the stock MAF and 19lb injectors are still there. So when it reads the voltage from the new MAF (which will have different voltage but will convert it) it only sees the original amount of air mass when in fact there is much more. This would create a lean condition if the injectors were stock, but the injectors are now 30lb so the same pulsewidth now means that more fuel will flow. This results in pretty close to the correct Air fuel ratio. Of course you can re tune your computer with tuners and such. And doing some research, they're all right. Using a MAF on a N/A engine is a poor idea that lead to detonation and/or worse.
Calm down Code... The computer IS NOT calibrated for a larger MAF and injectors. The larger MAF is sending signals to the computer in accordance to how the MAF is "calibrated". MAF's that are said to be "calibrated" for a certain size injector are really just "tricking" the EEC. Lets use, for example, a Pro-M 77 "calibrated " for 30lb injectors: As far as the computer is concerned it thinks the stock MAF and 19lb injectors are still there. So when it reads the voltage from the new MAF (which will have different voltage but will convert it) it only sees the original amount of air mass when in fact there is much more. This would create a lean condition if the injectors were stock, but the injectors are now 30lb so the same pulsewidth now means that more fuel will flow. This results in pretty close to the correct Air fuel ratio. Of course you can re tune your computer with tuners and such. And doing some research, they're all right. Using a MAF on a N/A engine is a poor idea that lead to detonation and/or worse.
Uh no...I run the stock MAF that came on my car with the stock 19# injectors. My computer was retuned and MAF was retuned through the computer for the larger injectors. Buying an off the shelf MAF that is "calibrated" for certain size injectors is never a good idea.
12-03-2006, 04:54 PM
#15
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Posts: 1,031
RE: 75 MM TB
FWIW the magazine "Mustangs and Fast Fords" has been doing a series of articles called "Inside The Black Box" which talks all about this kind of stuff.
Pretty in depth stuff with tables, formula's etc.
Pretty in depth stuff with tables, formula's etc.
12-03-2006, 07:48 PM
#16
CSMG Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 3,503
RE: 75 MM TB
Uh yeah, that's exactly how it works. Trust me. And I did say that you could get your re-tune your computer. Unless your car needs to be completely dialed in and tuned perfect, an off the shelf MAF is a fine idea. If you car is anything but full road race, or track, or trap or anything like that, they work fine. The cheaper the MAF, the crappeir the "calibration." There are some that are POS's, but there are ones that work fine.
12-03-2006, 08:27 PM
#17
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12,575
RE: 75 MM TB
ORIGINAL: 96GT226410
You don't need to upgrade your MAF sensor with a new TB. It wouldn't hurt, though. Most people use Lightning MAF. When you get a new MAF, make sure you get one that is calibrated for your stock injectors. It won't make the CEL come on. You will still see a difference with throttle response with the TB even without the plenum and/or MAF but every bit helps. I have a Mac 70mm TB and I don't hear a whistle. I don't have any experiance with BBK so I'm not sure.
You don't need to upgrade your MAF sensor with a new TB. It wouldn't hurt, though. Most people use Lightning MAF. When you get a new MAF, make sure you get one that is calibrated for your stock injectors. It won't make the CEL come on. You will still see a difference with throttle response with the TB even without the plenum and/or MAF but every bit helps. I have a Mac 70mm TB and I don't hear a whistle. I don't have any experiance with BBK so I'm not sure.
On the point of "tuning" a maf, I would like to know exactly how you go about doing this. All the MAF does is send a voltage signal to the ECU to tell it how much air is passing thru the sensor housing. I have seen C&L kits that come with different air tubes so you can reduce the air hitting the acutal sensor and thus keep your maf from pegging, but I have never seen anyone that was "in the know" about 2v 4.6L tuning acutall talk about or do any "maf tuning".
Edit: There is absolulty no reason to swap out your maf on a boltons only n/a combonation. The car simply cannot draw enough air to make the MAF a restriction. Buying my C&L maf was a complete waste of money, espcially when I ended up using a lightning maf when I went to FI.
12-03-2006, 09:29 PM
#18
Mustang Nazi
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Texas, baby
Posts: 13,444
RE: 75 MM TB
ORIGINAL: 96GT226410
Uh yeah, that's exactly how it works. Trust me. And I did say that you could get your re-tune your computer. Unless your car needs to be completely dialed in and tuned perfect, an off the shelf MAF is a fine idea. If you car is anything but full road race, or track, or trap or anything like that, they work fine. The cheaper the MAF, the crappeir the "calibration." There are some that are POS's, but there are ones that work fine.
Uh yeah, that's exactly how it works. Trust me. And I did say that you could get your re-tune your computer. Unless your car needs to be completely dialed in and tuned perfect, an off the shelf MAF is a fine idea. If you car is anything but full road race, or track, or trap or anything like that, they work fine. The cheaper the MAF, the crappeir the "calibration." There are some that are POS's, but there are ones that work fine.
12-03-2006, 10:10 PM
#19
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,031
RE: 75 MM TB
ORIGINAL: 96GT226410
Uh yeah, that's exactly how it works. Trust me. And I did say that you could get your re-tune your computer. Unless your car needs to be completely dialed in and tuned perfect, an off the shelf MAF is a fine idea. If you car is anything but full road race, or track, or trap or anything like that, they work fine. The cheaper the MAF, the crappeir the "calibration." There are some that are POS's, but there are ones that work fine.
Uh yeah, that's exactly how it works. Trust me. And I did say that you could get your re-tune your computer. Unless your car needs to be completely dialed in and tuned perfect, an off the shelf MAF is a fine idea. If you car is anything but full road race, or track, or trap or anything like that, they work fine. The cheaper the MAF, the crappeir the "calibration." There are some that are POS's, but there are ones that work fine.
Not anything specific that anyone has said in the thread.
Here is a snippet from the M&FF mag Nov06 edition.
"The big advantage of the MAF system is that you can change things in airflow and the MAF will react to the changes and the fuel flow will still be correct"
"The MAF system is only as good as the accuracy of the MAF sensor and unfortunately many aftermarket MAF meters have poor accuracy"
Then they go on to talk about so called "calibrated" to work with larger injector type MAF sensors which work without needing ECU programming. They work by fooling the ECU. Sending 1/2 the voltage signal causes the ECU to think their is only 1/2 the air and thus only 1/2 the fuel is needed and the ECU will cut the pulse width of the injectors by roughly 1/2.
They go on to say that now the load calculation is now screwed up which messes with the spark advance etc.....
Bottom line, it's COMPLEX STUFF......
Get Nov06 through Jan07 of Mustangs and Fast Fords if you want to understand how all of this stuff works right down to the tables stored in the ECU.
