The Quest for 400whp N/A...
01-04-2014, 05:40 PM
#21
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Clearwater FL
Posts: 608
*le sigh and facepalm*
Ok so I quoted myself from the original post, I must have not worded it right or perhaps I wrote it in a different language or something, so that's my bad. Allow me to reiterate.
I. Don't. Want. Boost. Everybody and their mother boosts their 3-valves. Yes its easy, yes it's a hell of a lot less expensive than what I'm doing, and I don't care. I don't want easy. This is going to be a challenge and that's half the fun of it. I don't want 500hp, or 600 or 700. If I wanted that much I would have bought the red and white GT500 that was sitting next to my car at the dealership. So please, please stop giving me the "you know, for the money you could go SC and get 600hp+" comments, and instead help me with my original question about which cylinder heads I should get.
And you know, yourmyboy, I briefly thought about getting a Boss crate engine, but considering the price for one of those boys is north of 15 grand, i'm going to stick with the original plan of keeping it a 3-valve. Besides, I like the sound of a 3v better than I do that of a 5.0 anyways, and once again that would just be too easy. I mean, if I'm going to spend close to that much money anyway, I'd prefer to do it in a slightly more unique way.
Oh, and by the way, with the way my parts list is looking right now, it seems I'm going to have a nice all-original 3v longblock with less than 40k miles on it for sale shortly. Any takers?? LOL
Ok so I quoted myself from the original post, I must have not worded it right or perhaps I wrote it in a different language or something, so that's my bad. Allow me to reiterate.
I. Don't. Want. Boost. Everybody and their mother boosts their 3-valves. Yes its easy, yes it's a hell of a lot less expensive than what I'm doing, and I don't care. I don't want easy. This is going to be a challenge and that's half the fun of it. I don't want 500hp, or 600 or 700. If I wanted that much I would have bought the red and white GT500 that was sitting next to my car at the dealership. So please, please stop giving me the "you know, for the money you could go SC and get 600hp+" comments, and instead help me with my original question about which cylinder heads I should get.
And you know, yourmyboy, I briefly thought about getting a Boss crate engine, but considering the price for one of those boys is north of 15 grand, i'm going to stick with the original plan of keeping it a 3-valve. Besides, I like the sound of a 3v better than I do that of a 5.0 anyways, and once again that would just be too easy. I mean, if I'm going to spend close to that much money anyway, I'd prefer to do it in a slightly more unique way.
Oh, and by the way, with the way my parts list is looking right now, it seems I'm going to have a nice all-original 3v longblock with less than 40k miles on it for sale shortly. Any takers?? LOL
Good luck on your build, I'm interested to see how you tackle the challenge and how it goes.
Id you did go with a high compression short block, what do you think You'd go with?
01-04-2014, 05:59 PM
#22
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Maui
Posts: 4,752
This is quite the challenge. With the proper desire and wallet I think it can be done but its not for the feint of heart. Its gonna bring the pain. Lol Good luck OP, looking forward to this build as a high reving v8 would be awesome.
01-05-2014, 12:34 PM
#23
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Missouri
Posts: 11
That is the main issue with the Boss engine. I have thought about it as well, but I don't have that kind of cash.
Good luck on your build, I'm interested to see how you tackle the challenge and how it goes.
Id you did go with a high compression short block, what do you think You'd go with?
Good luck on your build, I'm interested to see how you tackle the challenge and how it goes.
Id you did go with a high compression short block, what do you think You'd go with?
But honestly, I think i'm just going to have to call both manufacturers and talk to them and see what they suggest.
And to 808...no pain no gain, right?
01-05-2014, 01:12 PM
#24
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: CA
Posts: 22
Well right now i'm looking at MMR's shortblocks, either their 4.75 or 5.0 stroker in 11:1 compression. I may look into one of their 5.4 blocks too though, just for the extra displacement since it can also be ordered at 11:1, though it depends on how high and how easily it can rev. I wanted the Brenspeed B326 but it looks like they only offer it in stock 9.8:1 compression, and I just don't think that's gonna cut it.
But honestly, I think i'm just going to have to call both manufacturers and talk to them and see what they suggest.
And to 808...no pain no gain, right?
But honestly, I think i'm just going to have to call both manufacturers and talk to them and see what they suggest.
And to 808...no pain no gain, right?
Should be sick, especially if you can really rev it out. Right now my car's power isn't really usable and the red line is only 6500. And youa re right, there is a surplus of boosted 3valves running around.
01-15-2014, 11:22 AM
#25
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: PA
Posts: 27
I can't wait to hear/see your build. I am a fan of N/A builds myself........My 2010 is N/A with 340 rwhp and 320 rwtq and very streetable!!!!
Here is a list of items that should help get your build to 400 rwhp.
1. shortblock with...
2. Port and polish head with upgraded valves springs etc.....
3. bore
4. stroke
5. compression
6. cams
7. intake manifold/charge motion delete
8. full exhaust (x probabaly has slight advantage or H)
-long tube headers
-remove cats
-straight through mufflers
9. Cold Air intake
-could add Mach 1 hood scoop intake for more airflow (not sure how much it would improve but still and idea)
10. throttle body/spacer
11. electric water pump
12. Under drive pulley's
13. Light weight street/race wheels (
14. Aluminum or light weight drive shaft
15. quality lubricants (oil, gear oil etc....)
*may possibly need 42lb injectors and upgraded fuel pump
16. quality dyno tune
***and maybe a couple of cool stickers***
I tried to compile a list of non-manufacturer specific items that will help you on your quest for 400 N/A rwhp. I believe it can be done! Please keep us posted!!!
The fun is in choosing each part and how it affects the overall outcome of the build. Enjoy!!!!
Here is a list of items that should help get your build to 400 rwhp.
1. shortblock with...
2. Port and polish head with upgraded valves springs etc.....
3. bore
4. stroke
5. compression
6. cams
7. intake manifold/charge motion delete
8. full exhaust (x probabaly has slight advantage or H)
-long tube headers
-remove cats
-straight through mufflers
9. Cold Air intake
-could add Mach 1 hood scoop intake for more airflow (not sure how much it would improve but still and idea)
10. throttle body/spacer
11. electric water pump
12. Under drive pulley's
13. Light weight street/race wheels (
14. Aluminum or light weight drive shaft
15. quality lubricants (oil, gear oil etc....)
*may possibly need 42lb injectors and upgraded fuel pump
16. quality dyno tune
***and maybe a couple of cool stickers***
I tried to compile a list of non-manufacturer specific items that will help you on your quest for 400 N/A rwhp. I believe it can be done! Please keep us posted!!!
The fun is in choosing each part and how it affects the overall outcome of the build. Enjoy!!!!
01-15-2014, 11:08 PM
#26
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Missouri
Posts: 11
I can't wait to hear/see your build. I am a fan of N/A builds myself........My 2010 is N/A with 340 rwhp and 320 rwtq and very streetable!!!!
Here is a list of items that should help get your build to 400 rwhp.
1. shortblock with...
2. Port and polish head with upgraded valves springs etc.....
3. bore
4. stroke
5. compression
6. cams
7. intake manifold/charge motion delete
8. full exhaust (x probabaly has slight advantage or H)
-long tube headers
-remove cats
-straight through mufflers
9. Cold Air intake
-could add Mach 1 hood scoop intake for more airflow (not sure how much it would improve but still and idea)
10. throttle body/spacer
11. electric water pump
12. Under drive pulley's
13. Light weight street/race wheels (
14. Aluminum or light weight drive shaft
15. quality lubricants (oil, gear oil etc....)
*may possibly need 42lb injectors and upgraded fuel pump
16. quality dyno tune
***and maybe a couple of cool stickers***
I tried to compile a list of non-manufacturer specific items that will help you on your quest for 400 N/A rwhp. I believe it can be done! Please keep us posted!!!
The fun is in choosing each part and how it affects the overall outcome of the build. Enjoy!!!!
Here is a list of items that should help get your build to 400 rwhp.
1. shortblock with...
2. Port and polish head with upgraded valves springs etc.....
3. bore
4. stroke
5. compression
6. cams
7. intake manifold/charge motion delete
8. full exhaust (x probabaly has slight advantage or H)
-long tube headers
-remove cats
-straight through mufflers
9. Cold Air intake
-could add Mach 1 hood scoop intake for more airflow (not sure how much it would improve but still and idea)
10. throttle body/spacer
11. electric water pump
12. Under drive pulley's
13. Light weight street/race wheels (
14. Aluminum or light weight drive shaft
15. quality lubricants (oil, gear oil etc....)
*may possibly need 42lb injectors and upgraded fuel pump
16. quality dyno tune
***and maybe a couple of cool stickers***
I tried to compile a list of non-manufacturer specific items that will help you on your quest for 400 N/A rwhp. I believe it can be done! Please keep us posted!!!
The fun is in choosing each part and how it affects the overall outcome of the build. Enjoy!!!!
01-28-2014, 01:16 PM
#27
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: North East Texas on the Red River
Posts: 886
That was some really good information actually, Murphdog. I had seen that article a long time ago but couldn't find it, so I'm glad you put it up there. Its brought up some interesting things, most specifically for me in comparing Ford's two ported head options. The High Flow heads, while making around 8-10 more hp from around 5800rpm on up, seem to lag just a little behind on the midrange. For being double the cost, they don't seem a very wise investment for the gains they give. I'm wondering if having the same exhaust flow as the lesser heads might be holding the high-flow heads back some. Also, the fact that they were able to push the Hot Rod cams above 7k rpm, and make power at or above that mark, is interesting as well. Though I still don't think they would perform as well as, say, a Stage 3 Comp setup in peak hp, they still seem to be pretty solid performers, which I might look into as an alternative. I have to admit, the Hot Rod's lope is sexier than that of the Stage 3 Comp's.
I'd also be interested to see what a larger displacement, higher-compression shortblock would do to those numbers as well. Yes, veeeery interesting here...Of course I'm sitting here talking about 8-10hp here, 5-6hp there, but you do that a couple times over and that could make or break a 400+whp build. Of course, for the price of the base heads from Ford, MMR's stage 1 heads flow just 5 cfm's shy of Ford's top heads, and have a 13cfm-greater exhaust flow. Step up to their stage 2's and you have the same intake flow and even more exhaust flow. Oh yes, things are starting to get interesting.
Good stuff guys, keep it coming! I'm having fun discussing this, and I'm not even building it yet!
I'd also be interested to see what a larger displacement, higher-compression shortblock would do to those numbers as well. Yes, veeeery interesting here...Of course I'm sitting here talking about 8-10hp here, 5-6hp there, but you do that a couple times over and that could make or break a 400+whp build. Of course, for the price of the base heads from Ford, MMR's stage 1 heads flow just 5 cfm's shy of Ford's top heads, and have a 13cfm-greater exhaust flow. Step up to their stage 2's and you have the same intake flow and even more exhaust flow. Oh yes, things are starting to get interesting.
Good stuff guys, keep it coming! I'm having fun discussing this, and I'm not even building it yet!
I'm having fun reading the thread and look forward to watching the build from afar.
I'm an old Geezer that built plenty of engines in the past. I've never touched a Modular Motor to do anything except maintenance and repair.
I expect that my experience with older tech engines will carry over in my comment here. In my experience, higher compression seems to do more for the seat of the pants than what it shows on the dyno. Increasing compression, as long as you can get the fuel octane necessary, has always seemed to make an engine feel "snappy," beyond the numerical increase seen on the dyno. If that makes sense.
Thanks for sharing your project with us.
02-03-2014, 10:04 PM
#28
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 27
I'm kind-of doing the same. I'm building my engine up a little at a time.
I bought it with the long tubes with full exhaust (H instead of X), CAI, and the Comp ***** Thumprs (I know, please don't bash too hard. I REALLY love the way they sound), and it dyno'd ~325whp IIRC.
I just ordered the FRPP intake manifold and FRPP twin 62mm TB today. Once I can find a good dyno-tuner, I'll post some before/after numbers if I remember to.
I'm looking at heads myself after I put on the intake. I'm not looking for a specific goal of HP, just building along as I want.
I bought it with the long tubes with full exhaust (H instead of X), CAI, and the Comp ***** Thumprs (I know, please don't bash too hard. I REALLY love the way they sound), and it dyno'd ~325whp IIRC.
I just ordered the FRPP intake manifold and FRPP twin 62mm TB today. Once I can find a good dyno-tuner, I'll post some before/after numbers if I remember to.
I'm looking at heads myself after I put on the intake. I'm not looking for a specific goal of HP, just building along as I want.
02-06-2014, 01:30 AM
#29
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Missouri
Posts: 11
I'd never bash on the Comp Thumpr's, they sound great and give some good power gains. Hopefully they installed phaser limiters as well though, otherwise I've heard of some engine bombings from some of the earlier customers of those cams who didn't install them. Pistons slapping valves = 'sploding pistons, never a good thing.
You'll get some decent power gains from the intake when paired with those cams and long tubes, but a set of heads will really wake up the potential of that frpp intake manifold! I've got Steeda's charge motion delete plates on my stock manifold right now, since I don't have cams or heads installed and without said heads and cams, the frpp manifold isn't a good investment since you really don't have the extra flow and such to really make good use of that manifold.
Honestly though, had I known I was going to be attempting this build a year ago when I got those plates, I would have spent the extra money on the frpp manifold just so I would have that part purchased and I could scratch it off my list of needs. Oh well, hindsight is 20/20 and all that jazz! Feel free though to keep us updated in this thread when you get dyno'd and such if you want to, so we can have some numbers to compare when it gets to that point for me. Plus I just wanna hear what you'll put down.
You'll get some decent power gains from the intake when paired with those cams and long tubes, but a set of heads will really wake up the potential of that frpp intake manifold! I've got Steeda's charge motion delete plates on my stock manifold right now, since I don't have cams or heads installed and without said heads and cams, the frpp manifold isn't a good investment since you really don't have the extra flow and such to really make good use of that manifold.
Honestly though, had I known I was going to be attempting this build a year ago when I got those plates, I would have spent the extra money on the frpp manifold just so I would have that part purchased and I could scratch it off my list of needs. Oh well, hindsight is 20/20 and all that jazz! Feel free though to keep us updated in this thread when you get dyno'd and such if you want to, so we can have some numbers to compare when it gets to that point for me. Plus I just wanna hear what you'll put down.
