timing issue - MustangForums.com


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Old 08-23-2015, 11:00 PM   #1
1987gt40ttopt
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Default timing issue

having been on in a while and i was looking for someone to help me realize im not going crazy. i have a new set up that is a 347. trying to keep this short, basically what happens is upon start up the engine idles very high around 2500rpm and the headers start to glow cherry red after a few seconds. so i figure obviously the timing is off maybe somehow i have installed the distributor off a tooth. but i have reinstalled it several times and actually set the timing with a light to have still no changes at all. ive checked for vac leaks, disconnected the boost controller, removed the chip from the ecu and even used a leak down tester to varify the cam is degreed correctly and no valves are open at tdc. ive used compressed air to check for leaks and such. nothing. as i start to retard the distributor with it running i hear the idle come down but i cant let it run long enough to mess with it bc its a fresh motor and i dont want to play around. the balancer is a motorsport solid steel so its not spun. i used a piece of wire on the compression stroke to find tdc on #1 and marked the balancer w white paint. tried just starting up and adding 10 degrees with the light and have been stuck ever since....any help is appreciated i feel like i see distributors in my sleep at this point
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Old 08-24-2015, 12:36 AM   #2
dawson1112
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Spout out, set with light 10 degrees before TDC, spout back in.

It sounds to me like your getting un metered air from some place, and its lean as all get out.

What is your top end set up? Heads/cam/intake what injectors, and maf are you running?
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Old 08-24-2015, 07:13 PM   #3
1987gt40ttopt
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holley systemax alum. heads holley systemax upper and lower intake pro m 75mm blow thru mass air meter calibrated for the 60lb injectors installed. thats what i dont get i even tried that just figured my timing was way retarted got the light set it at 10* and there was no change at all if anything the idle got a little higher which makes no sense
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Old 08-24-2015, 08:01 PM   #4
1987gt40ttopt
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and to be totally honest i was thinking it was rich from being retarted causing unburned fuel to enter the headers and make them heat up so quick. the weird thing is i dunno why. even with the light on it set to 10* w a steady mark no bouncing around it was still heating up. i wondered about getting air in from somewhere else i.e vac leak or w.e but plugged every vac source even and still no change. tried putting 40psi into the motor compressed air and couldnt hear any leaks like you would if lower intake or w.e gasket was out. kinda at a loss
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Old 08-24-2015, 08:22 PM   #5
dawson1112
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Smoke test it. You can put pressurized smoke into the intake and if its leaking someplace it will show. I would expect a rich mixture to smoke black really bad and actually rich engines tend to cool things off more. To much O2 in the mix though will heat things up pretty quick.
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Old 08-24-2015, 09:07 PM   #6
1987gt40ttopt
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the smoke is a good idea ive never tried that. what do you use? i was going w rich bc im thinking the timing is so retarted that its actually opening the exhaust valve premature and letting unburned fuel into the exhaust. plus the high rpm has me kinda like??? initial thought was air leak somewhere but i have found nothing at all. if you have a method for the smoke maybe that can eliminate at least the air/vac leak. even though i thought i had with a pressurized air test but you got me thinking and im willing to try anything at this point
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Old 08-25-2015, 07:23 AM   #7
dawson1112
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You can call around to see if any shops in your area have a smoke machine , or look on youtube , there are virtually 100s of videos of DIY smokers.
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Old 08-25-2015, 11:17 AM   #8
silver91gt
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just one thought, since the headers are glowing red, are you sure you have the timing set to 10*btdc and not 10*atdc? when I did my first cam swap I had the same thing and my timing was set way too low.

the throttle screw could be set too high causing the high idle, and if the timing is correct, the only other thing it could be is a vac leak somewhere. Have you tried spraying brake cleaner on the intake seams when its running?
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Old 08-25-2015, 07:14 PM   #9
1987gt40ttopt
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thats good thinking. i used 0 or tdc as the only mark on the balancer and just added 10* on the gun. i like the smoke idea bc maybe it will show where compresser air is possibly leaking that i cant see. im gonna see if i can rig up a test and report back
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Old 08-25-2015, 09:40 PM   #10
1987gt40ttopt
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i tried the smoke test finding no leaks. i know i had a decent amount of smoke in there too bc when i uncapped the exhaust it flowed decently out of there
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