HELP: 94 GT Problem
02-01-2006, 08:37 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 8
HELP: 94 GT Problem
Here's my problem. If any of you have experienced something like this, I'd love to hear your advice - thanks. I'm a recently disabled soldier, and don't have much money to spend...the damn Ford dealer wants $185 just to read the OBD codes! I told them I already did it, and came up with nothing. And, I don't want to take it into my OMS shop (military vehicle repair shop) just yet, at least until I've figured out what's wrong with it. I don't have the money to be buying an ECT sensor, fuel filter, battery, etc...just to diagnose/chase the problem...Anyway, thanks for the help...
Sincerely,
Mak
HERE GOES..............
Car:
1994 Mustang GT 5.0 HO
Upgrades:
K&N Cold Air Intake System
BBK Performance H-pipe (no cats)
New Clutch
Problem: Car’s temp gauge “wags.” Causes car to sputter/misfire/die during one rotation.
Symptoms:
This usually happens when the car has warmed up (driven for more than 20 miles), however, it happened to me today, while the car was warming up (first mile)
Generally, what signals the start of the problem is the temperature gauge starts to wag. Sometimes it jumps. The temperature gauge will start to wag as soon as the car warms up, sometimes it doesn’t result in any problems with the car.
The battery light comes on when the temp gauge wags, however, it only comes on when I am accelerating.
Lately, the Tach has been wagging as well. Sometimes, it shows the wrong RPM (stays at a high RPM, even though I know I am not revving to 3000RPMs). This is recent, before that, the only symptom was the temp gauge wagging.
Anyway, when the temp guage wags, and the battery light comes on, the car sputters. It feels as though it dies for a second, however, it immediately resumes accelerating. This happens, off and on, the entire time the gauges are wagging. The sputtering is a choking feeling - like the car has hiccupped. It only lasts for a turn of the engine, however, I don’t want the car to die on me while I am on the freeway, so it scares me.
The car sputters, reguardless of whether I am accelerating or not. If I am just holding the gas in, to maintain a constant speed, it will sputter then too.
Solutions Tried:
I have tried replacing the battery.
I have tried higher-grade fuel. (I was using 87, now I use 92.)
If you can give me any idea as to what my problem could be, it’d be much appreciated. I have run the OBD I scanner on the car, however, I did not get into the Engine Running tests. I figured the holdover memory would keep the code, if there was one to begin with. The OBD I did not give me any warning codes.
Sincerely,
Mak
HERE GOES..............
Car:
1994 Mustang GT 5.0 HO
Upgrades:
K&N Cold Air Intake System
BBK Performance H-pipe (no cats)
New Clutch
Problem: Car’s temp gauge “wags.” Causes car to sputter/misfire/die during one rotation.
Symptoms:
This usually happens when the car has warmed up (driven for more than 20 miles), however, it happened to me today, while the car was warming up (first mile)
Generally, what signals the start of the problem is the temperature gauge starts to wag. Sometimes it jumps. The temperature gauge will start to wag as soon as the car warms up, sometimes it doesn’t result in any problems with the car.
The battery light comes on when the temp gauge wags, however, it only comes on when I am accelerating.
Lately, the Tach has been wagging as well. Sometimes, it shows the wrong RPM (stays at a high RPM, even though I know I am not revving to 3000RPMs). This is recent, before that, the only symptom was the temp gauge wagging.
Anyway, when the temp guage wags, and the battery light comes on, the car sputters. It feels as though it dies for a second, however, it immediately resumes accelerating. This happens, off and on, the entire time the gauges are wagging. The sputtering is a choking feeling - like the car has hiccupped. It only lasts for a turn of the engine, however, I don’t want the car to die on me while I am on the freeway, so it scares me.
The car sputters, reguardless of whether I am accelerating or not. If I am just holding the gas in, to maintain a constant speed, it will sputter then too.
Solutions Tried:
I have tried replacing the battery.
I have tried higher-grade fuel. (I was using 87, now I use 92.)
If you can give me any idea as to what my problem could be, it’d be much appreciated. I have run the OBD I scanner on the car, however, I did not get into the Engine Running tests. I figured the holdover memory would keep the code, if there was one to begin with. The OBD I did not give me any warning codes.
02-03-2006, 02:38 AM
#3
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 8
RE: HELP: 94 GT Problem
Marx91,
Thank you very much. I will check into the MAF. There is an aftermarket H-Pipe and a cold air intake system, so I can understand how the MAF could get screwed up. Thanks again, I really appreciate everyone's consideration. Anyway, I have a few updates...
UPDATE [2-2-06]: I checked the ECT sensor, and the ECT-PCM sender, and both were working properly. Also, I took it to Les Schwab's (a large Northwest tire and battery chain) today - they sold me the battery (which I obviously didn't need), however, they have excellent customer service...and, if you have any problems (with the part they sold you), you can go back and have them run circles around your car (they have to run everywhere...lol.)...Although, they won't take the battery back...lol. Sucks!
Anyway, I had them check the alternator and battery. Works fine. Urgh.
I did look in the "power distribution box" and found that a few fuses (3) were missing. Is that normal? I'm going to look it up [online] as soon as I finish writing this. My Hayes manual didn't have a diagram of the fuse layout, and I don't have the owner's manual, so I don't know if I'm actually missing something.
Here's what I'm missing (3 fuses):
Circuit Breaker 7
Relay 1
Maxi 17
Thank you very much. I will check into the MAF. There is an aftermarket H-Pipe and a cold air intake system, so I can understand how the MAF could get screwed up. Thanks again, I really appreciate everyone's consideration. Anyway, I have a few updates...
UPDATE [2-2-06]: I checked the ECT sensor, and the ECT-PCM sender, and both were working properly. Also, I took it to Les Schwab's (a large Northwest tire and battery chain) today - they sold me the battery (which I obviously didn't need), however, they have excellent customer service...and, if you have any problems (with the part they sold you), you can go back and have them run circles around your car (they have to run everywhere...lol.)...Although, they won't take the battery back...lol. Sucks!
Anyway, I had them check the alternator and battery. Works fine. Urgh.
I did look in the "power distribution box" and found that a few fuses (3) were missing. Is that normal? I'm going to look it up [online] as soon as I finish writing this. My Hayes manual didn't have a diagram of the fuse layout, and I don't have the owner's manual, so I don't know if I'm actually missing something.
Here's what I'm missing (3 fuses):
Circuit Breaker 7
Relay 1
Maxi 17
02-03-2006, 02:49 AM
#4
5th Gear Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
Posts: 2,128
RE: HELP: 94 GT Problem
If you want to test the MAF then tap it lightly with a screw driver and if your car starts to act up then you know thats your problem. But check the fuses and cleanout/replace your sensors. I forgot the name of the switch that goes into the radiator but you may want to check that. As for the sputter it really could be your fuel filter, air filter, clogged injetors sparkplug wires or even a vacuum leak. Even if the wires look fine on the outside then can be messed up on the inside. Start with the vacuum leaks, spray propane around the engine bay and if you hear it rev up then you can pin point the line. Also if you hear a clicking then check your manifold bolts and all the exhaust bolts. Good luck.
02-03-2006, 02:54 AM
#5
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Lil' Rhody
Posts: 22,376
RE: HELP: 94 GT Problem
i'm not all too sure what the fuses are for but concerning your comment on the OBD codes. you dont need a scanner to check your codes. you simply need a wire long enough to run from one corner of your engine bay to the other.
https://mustangforums.com/m_919444/m.../tm.htm#921609
hopefully this helps!
https://mustangforums.com/m_919444/m.../tm.htm#921609
hopefully this helps!
02-03-2006, 03:44 AM
#6
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 8
RE: HELP: 94 GT Problem
HERE'S WHAT I GOT OFF ANOTHER FORUM:
Sorry to hear about your injury - best of luck getting healed up and things taken care of.
Did the battery light issue arise after the other gauge issues started? If not (it all started at once), I would think that perhaps the battery voltage might have something to do with your gauges. FWIW, the gauge has NOTHING to do with the engine management. There is the gauge sender (it is located behind the dizzy, with one wire on its lid) and there is the ECT (which does relate coolant temps to the computer, controls your fan, etc. It is on the heater tube on the pass side).
Were it me, I would install a mechanical aftermarket temp gauge (even if just a parts store cheapo) to get a handle on what is going on with the temps. You can remove this gauge once other issues are fixed, or leave it installed. I might also install a voltmeter or put your DMM in the car where you can see the display (if you can safely do it, see what the DMM reads when things start to flip out).
If you can get the battery light to start doing its thing, does it keep repeating? If so, with what frequency? I am trying to think of a way for you to be able to get components tested reliably (parts stores do free in-car and bench testing in most places).
It can be worthwhile to look at the regulator wiring at the alternator. There are about 4 wires of small gauge at the alt, plus the power cable.
Another thing I would do is to clean the power distribution box connection (this is where your alternator hooks up to the underhood fuse box). More than a few of us have had issues with that connection getting corroded, etc and causing issues.
Take a look at your temp sender wire. Make sure it is tight and clean.
I will stop for now and see if you think it is worth me trying to think of more stuff.
Others will have good ideas for you too. Best of luck Mak.
AND, HERE'S MY RESPONSE:
Thanks a lot for the quick response. Here's what I've got for you.
Did the battery light issue arise after the other gauge issues started?
Yes, the battery light issue started a few days after the gauges started flipping out. The first thing I noticed was the temp gauge. Then the battery light, accompanied by the misfires/dying and tach misreadings.
If not (it all started at once), I would think that perhaps the battery voltage might have something to do with your gauges. FWIW, the gauge has NOTHING to do with the engine management. There is the gauge sender (it is located behind the dizzy, with one wire on its lid) and there is the ECT (which does relate coolant temps to the computer, controls your fan, etc. It is on the heater tube on the pass side).
I checked the ECT sensor, and the PCM sender that attaches to it, (as per my Hayes manual) and both were working properly. I, also, had a brand new battery put in. And had it tested, along with my alternator, today. Tomorrow, I am going to take the car into a local electronics repair place ...the guys who sold me the battery (Les Schwab) refered me there, stating that they have better testing equipment and can test more stuff than the Les Schwab equipment handles.
Were it me, I would install a mechanical aftermarket temp gauge (even if just a parts store cheapo) to get a handle on what is going on with the temps. You can remove this gauge once other issues are fixed, or leave it installed.
Looked into it. But, I would have to disconnect the factory one in order to tap into the original sender. I may just take you up on that tomorrow...hopefully I'm not damaging the engine!
I might also install a voltmeter or put your DMM in the car where you can see the display (if you can safely do it, see what the DMM reads when things start to flip out).
I should hook the DMM up to the temp. sensor (the one that feeds the dash gauge)? That sounds like a good idea. However, I won't be able to read it until I stop. Although, I just bought the thing, and still have the option to take it back. Radio Shack, who sold me this one, has another one that records the readings and downloads them to your computer...it's about $30 more, but if you can tell me what to look for, I'd be willing to make the upgrade... (Hell, if you can solve my problem, I'll send it to you when I'm done!)
If you can get the battery light to start doing its thing, does it keep repeating?
Yes, it repeats whenever I push on the gas. I noticed that the battery light will come on, and the car dies (momentarily), ONLY when I am pushing on the gas. It used to only happen on the freeway, however, now it happens all the time. It's really annoying, especially when you're trying to get out of a standing stop (I have a M/T, and it's kinda hard to match revs/steadily accel. when your tach is going nuts, and the car keeps jerking/misfiring).
If so, with what frequency? I am trying to think of a way for you to be able to get components tested reliably (parts stores do free in-car and bench testing in most places).
Frequency: Every time I push the gas. It's been happening a lot lately, even when the car is cold. However, it only happens when the temp gauge is jumping. Sometimes, NOT lately :nonono: , the temp gauge doesn't freak out....and, I don't have any misfires. Oh, those were the days. (I just bought the car a month ago, from a private seller...so, I may just be SOL [no lemon law for private sellers]. I pray everyday [please don't jinx me just yet..lol.]...I used my reenlistment money for it [gave up another 3 years of my life, but they will probably kick me out anyway...so....]...lol. And, since the military hasn't started giving me disability, I really have no income to spare...on a new car...lol. Ugh...help.)
Tomorrow, I am going to a local alternator/electrical repair shop. They have diagnostic tools which can [hopefully] diagnose my problem.
It can be worthwhile to look at the regulator wiring at the alternator. There are about 4 wires of small gauge at the alt, plus the power cable.
I checked the wires leading to the alternator...and the ignition and spark plug wires. They're all tight, and in good condition. Plus, the guy at Les Schwag, checked my alternator with a battery tester/AC thingy, and found no faults.
Another thing I would do is to clean the power distribution box connection (this is where your alternator hooks up to the underhood fuse box). More than a few of us have had issues with that connection getting corroded, etc and causing issues.
I checked the fuses in the "Power Distribution Box," and found that a few of them were missing. I don't have the owners manual...nor does my Hayes manual have any information on it...so, I don't know if they're supposed to be missing. I'm going to look them up as soon as I'm done typing this. However, if you have any information on them, I'd love to hear it...
Here's what I'm missing (3 fuses):
Circuit Breaker 7
Relay 1
Maxi 17
Take a look at your temp sender wire. Make sure it is tight and clean.
I'll check the temp sender tomorrow.
Do you think that this could be damaging my car (aside from the car possibly overheating without me knowing it)? If that's the case, I'll stop driving it...
Also, when it 'dies', do you think the ignition actually cuts out for a second and then the car somehow catches/restarts itself after the burp? This could be why the battery light comes on................
That's exactly what I think is happening. The car catches itself immediately after it "dies." It happens every 3-5 seconds [ONLY while the accelerator is depressed]. Yup, that's why/when the battery light comes on.
Thanks again for your help. I really appreciate you taking time out of your day to help me. I really, really appreciate it!!!
Sincerely,
Mak
Anyway, thanks again. Her
Sorry to hear about your injury - best of luck getting healed up and things taken care of.
Did the battery light issue arise after the other gauge issues started? If not (it all started at once), I would think that perhaps the battery voltage might have something to do with your gauges. FWIW, the gauge has NOTHING to do with the engine management. There is the gauge sender (it is located behind the dizzy, with one wire on its lid) and there is the ECT (which does relate coolant temps to the computer, controls your fan, etc. It is on the heater tube on the pass side).
Were it me, I would install a mechanical aftermarket temp gauge (even if just a parts store cheapo) to get a handle on what is going on with the temps. You can remove this gauge once other issues are fixed, or leave it installed. I might also install a voltmeter or put your DMM in the car where you can see the display (if you can safely do it, see what the DMM reads when things start to flip out).
If you can get the battery light to start doing its thing, does it keep repeating? If so, with what frequency? I am trying to think of a way for you to be able to get components tested reliably (parts stores do free in-car and bench testing in most places).
It can be worthwhile to look at the regulator wiring at the alternator. There are about 4 wires of small gauge at the alt, plus the power cable.
Another thing I would do is to clean the power distribution box connection (this is where your alternator hooks up to the underhood fuse box). More than a few of us have had issues with that connection getting corroded, etc and causing issues.
Take a look at your temp sender wire. Make sure it is tight and clean.
I will stop for now and see if you think it is worth me trying to think of more stuff.
Others will have good ideas for you too. Best of luck Mak.
AND, HERE'S MY RESPONSE:
Thanks a lot for the quick response. Here's what I've got for you.
Did the battery light issue arise after the other gauge issues started?
Yes, the battery light issue started a few days after the gauges started flipping out. The first thing I noticed was the temp gauge. Then the battery light, accompanied by the misfires/dying and tach misreadings.
If not (it all started at once), I would think that perhaps the battery voltage might have something to do with your gauges. FWIW, the gauge has NOTHING to do with the engine management. There is the gauge sender (it is located behind the dizzy, with one wire on its lid) and there is the ECT (which does relate coolant temps to the computer, controls your fan, etc. It is on the heater tube on the pass side).
I checked the ECT sensor, and the PCM sender that attaches to it, (as per my Hayes manual) and both were working properly. I, also, had a brand new battery put in. And had it tested, along with my alternator, today. Tomorrow, I am going to take the car into a local electronics repair place ...the guys who sold me the battery (Les Schwab) refered me there, stating that they have better testing equipment and can test more stuff than the Les Schwab equipment handles.
Were it me, I would install a mechanical aftermarket temp gauge (even if just a parts store cheapo) to get a handle on what is going on with the temps. You can remove this gauge once other issues are fixed, or leave it installed.
Looked into it. But, I would have to disconnect the factory one in order to tap into the original sender. I may just take you up on that tomorrow...hopefully I'm not damaging the engine!
I might also install a voltmeter or put your DMM in the car where you can see the display (if you can safely do it, see what the DMM reads when things start to flip out).
I should hook the DMM up to the temp. sensor (the one that feeds the dash gauge)? That sounds like a good idea. However, I won't be able to read it until I stop. Although, I just bought the thing, and still have the option to take it back. Radio Shack, who sold me this one, has another one that records the readings and downloads them to your computer...it's about $30 more, but if you can tell me what to look for, I'd be willing to make the upgrade... (Hell, if you can solve my problem, I'll send it to you when I'm done!)
If you can get the battery light to start doing its thing, does it keep repeating?
Yes, it repeats whenever I push on the gas. I noticed that the battery light will come on, and the car dies (momentarily), ONLY when I am pushing on the gas. It used to only happen on the freeway, however, now it happens all the time. It's really annoying, especially when you're trying to get out of a standing stop (I have a M/T, and it's kinda hard to match revs/steadily accel. when your tach is going nuts, and the car keeps jerking/misfiring).
If so, with what frequency? I am trying to think of a way for you to be able to get components tested reliably (parts stores do free in-car and bench testing in most places).
Frequency: Every time I push the gas. It's been happening a lot lately, even when the car is cold. However, it only happens when the temp gauge is jumping. Sometimes, NOT lately :nonono: , the temp gauge doesn't freak out....and, I don't have any misfires. Oh, those were the days. (I just bought the car a month ago, from a private seller...so, I may just be SOL [no lemon law for private sellers]. I pray everyday [please don't jinx me just yet..lol.]...I used my reenlistment money for it [gave up another 3 years of my life, but they will probably kick me out anyway...so....]...lol. And, since the military hasn't started giving me disability, I really have no income to spare...on a new car...lol. Ugh...help.)
Tomorrow, I am going to a local alternator/electrical repair shop. They have diagnostic tools which can [hopefully] diagnose my problem.
It can be worthwhile to look at the regulator wiring at the alternator. There are about 4 wires of small gauge at the alt, plus the power cable.
I checked the wires leading to the alternator...and the ignition and spark plug wires. They're all tight, and in good condition. Plus, the guy at Les Schwag, checked my alternator with a battery tester/AC thingy, and found no faults.
Another thing I would do is to clean the power distribution box connection (this is where your alternator hooks up to the underhood fuse box). More than a few of us have had issues with that connection getting corroded, etc and causing issues.
I checked the fuses in the "Power Distribution Box," and found that a few of them were missing. I don't have the owners manual...nor does my Hayes manual have any information on it...so, I don't know if they're supposed to be missing. I'm going to look them up as soon as I'm done typing this. However, if you have any information on them, I'd love to hear it...
Here's what I'm missing (3 fuses):
Circuit Breaker 7
Relay 1
Maxi 17
Take a look at your temp sender wire. Make sure it is tight and clean.
I'll check the temp sender tomorrow.
Do you think that this could be damaging my car (aside from the car possibly overheating without me knowing it)? If that's the case, I'll stop driving it...
Also, when it 'dies', do you think the ignition actually cuts out for a second and then the car somehow catches/restarts itself after the burp? This could be why the battery light comes on................
That's exactly what I think is happening. The car catches itself immediately after it "dies." It happens every 3-5 seconds [ONLY while the accelerator is depressed]. Yup, that's why/when the battery light comes on.
Thanks again for your help. I really appreciate you taking time out of your day to help me. I really, really appreciate it!!!
Sincerely,
Mak
Anyway, thanks again. Her
02-03-2006, 03:53 AM
#7
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 8
RE: HELP: 94 GT Problem
Yeah, the OBD reader sucked anyway. I took it back. The mini, single pin broke...and would slip down into the unit every time I tried to hook up the EEC cable. My Hayes manual says I can use a DMM. I've been using that instead. Although, it'd be much easier just to read the numbers...and have them automatically save in the OBD reader...lol. Counting? I can't count.
02-03-2006, 08:44 PM
#10
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 8
RE: HELP: 94 GT Problem
I GOT IT!!!! I found the solution - totally by chance - on some obscure site (which wasn't even a forum) NOT dedicated to Mustangs... the link was buried between a bunch of other crap for Tempo's, Explorer's, Toyota's, etc....lol! Oh man, you know, I prayed to God last night....and, when I put in Black Sabbath this morning, all was well.... Well, almost all well. I figured out the problem was purely electrical. I was on the freeway, the stuttering had stopped, and I was sure it wasn't going to happen again (the gauges were working fine). Then, when I turned on my blinker to pass a guy, the second the blinker connection hit, it started again...that clued me into the electrical problem. So, I took it into a local alternator repair place - the guy was a wiz with the voltmeter, and diagnosed it in a second.
SOLUTION:
What he did was take the charging measurement from the battery to see how many volts the bat. is getting from the alt. It looked small (3-something)...compared to the volts coming off the alt. (4-even)...so he ran a line from my battery's negative terminal post to the engine block. Every time he hooked up (the jerry rigged connection), the gauges stopped wigging out. Whew. So, as soon as I was done running around today, I just added another wire from the negative terminal to the chasis hookup. The enging-to-chasis ground is still bad...but, that will have to wait till Monday. Only the Ford dealership can get me that part. It's a pretty funky cable, with a special connection that looks like it has a circuit breaker in it...it's close to the power distribution box...just follow the lead from the negative cable back to the power dist. box (fuse box) and it should be right there...
So, if you have a similar problem...I hear it's a pretty common one...here's the answer... It's the jank grounding cables Ford packaged with their cars....They NEED to be serviced every 50k. They don't tell you that.
Thanks again for all the help. I'll update when I complete the repair. I bet Ford charges me 200 bucks for the part!
SOLUTION:
What he did was take the charging measurement from the battery to see how many volts the bat. is getting from the alt. It looked small (3-something)...compared to the volts coming off the alt. (4-even)...so he ran a line from my battery's negative terminal post to the engine block. Every time he hooked up (the jerry rigged connection), the gauges stopped wigging out. Whew. So, as soon as I was done running around today, I just added another wire from the negative terminal to the chasis hookup. The enging-to-chasis ground is still bad...but, that will have to wait till Monday. Only the Ford dealership can get me that part. It's a pretty funky cable, with a special connection that looks like it has a circuit breaker in it...it's close to the power distribution box...just follow the lead from the negative cable back to the power dist. box (fuse box) and it should be right there...
So, if you have a similar problem...I hear it's a pretty common one...here's the answer... It's the jank grounding cables Ford packaged with their cars....They NEED to be serviced every 50k. They don't tell you that.
Thanks again for all the help. I'll update when I complete the repair. I bet Ford charges me 200 bucks for the part!