New project - thoughts on condition?
I ♥ Acer
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 17,565
From:
RE: New project - thoughts on condition?
ORIGINAL: Colorado_Mustang
.060 is quite a bit. You'll want to check your compression ratio before you really decide which heads you want. You may have a negative deck clearance. No big deal, but it may require thicker head gaskets.
It would be cheaper to get a set of aftermarket cast iron heads then to rebuild what you have.
Is the tranny a manual or auto. For a manual, the toploaders are as the sound...there's a top cover that all the parts go into the transmission. If you have 2 shift arms, it's the toploader 3-speed. 3 shift arms is the toploader 4-speed. If the cover is on the side, you have a weaker 4-speed (T10 I think).
If it's an auto, the pan shape will tell you what it is. The C4, FMX, and C5 have removable bellhousings.
.060 is quite a bit. You'll want to check your compression ratio before you really decide which heads you want. You may have a negative deck clearance. No big deal, but it may require thicker head gaskets.
It would be cheaper to get a set of aftermarket cast iron heads then to rebuild what you have.
Is the tranny a manual or auto. For a manual, the toploaders are as the sound...there's a top cover that all the parts go into the transmission. If you have 2 shift arms, it's the toploader 3-speed. 3 shift arms is the toploader 4-speed. If the cover is on the side, you have a weaker 4-speed (T10 I think).
If it's an auto, the pan shape will tell you what it is. The C4, FMX, and C5 have removable bellhousings.
ORIGINAL: frisco67mustang
So far I have the engine decked and milled to .060 and the heads cleaned up.
The machine shop says it needs a valve job (wondering if it's better to just get new heads).
2. thoughts on rebuilding the 302, it originally came with a 289 3 speed. (haven't gotten under it to figure out the tranny and how do i tell which trans it has?) I am looking for this to become my daily driver after I am done so easy idle and decent gas milage would be nice.
So far I have the engine decked and milled to .060 and the heads cleaned up.
The machine shop says it needs a valve job (wondering if it's better to just get new heads).
2. thoughts on rebuilding the 302, it originally came with a 289 3 speed. (haven't gotten under it to figure out the tranny and how do i tell which trans it has?) I am looking for this to become my daily driver after I am done so easy idle and decent gas milage would be nice.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6
RE: New project - thoughts on condition?
ORIGINAL: slickman
One thing you should test because its an unseen problem until it rains, check the cowl and see if it leaks.. It may need to be repaired..
One thing you should test because its an unseen problem until it rains, check the cowl and see if it leaks.. It may need to be repaired..
2nd Gear Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 181
From: West Virginia
RE: New project - thoughts on condition?
Here is a picture showing what needs replaced at the cowl area. The cowl is the piece of sheetmetal between the windshield and the hood, with the skinny vent ribs in it. Below that piece are the lower cowl panels wich have vents in them for the heater intake and fresh air vent. They are notorious for rusting out on old mustangs. To test them, once your carpet is removed, pour a 20 ounce bottle of water down the vent ribs and see if it is draining into the floor. If it is, then one or both of your lower cowl panels need replaced. It is a fairly big job.
[IMG]local://upfiles/40458/2130739B3C844DABB975597D9796183B.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/40458/2130739B3C844DABB975597D9796183B.jpg[/IMG]
5th Gear Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,634
From: SC
RE: New project - thoughts on condition?
Thats the ticket!
ORIGINAL: 428coupe
Here is a picture showing what needs replaced at the cowl area. The cowl is the piece of sheetmetal between the windshield and the hood, with the skinny vent ribs in it. Below that piece are the lower cowl panels wich have vents in them for the heater intake and fresh air vent. They are notorious for rusting out on old mustangs. To test them, once your carpet is removed, pour a 20 ounce bottle of water down the vent ribs and see if it is draining into the floor. If it is, then one or both of your lower cowl panels need replaced. It is a fairly big job.
[IMG]local://upfiles/40458/2130739B3C844DABB975597D9796183B.jpg[/IMG]
Here is a picture showing what needs replaced at the cowl area. The cowl is the piece of sheetmetal between the windshield and the hood, with the skinny vent ribs in it. Below that piece are the lower cowl panels wich have vents in them for the heater intake and fresh air vent. They are notorious for rusting out on old mustangs. To test them, once your carpet is removed, pour a 20 ounce bottle of water down the vent ribs and see if it is draining into the floor. If it is, then one or both of your lower cowl panels need replaced. It is a fairly big job.
[IMG]local://upfiles/40458/2130739B3C844DABB975597D9796183B.jpg[/IMG]
5th Gear Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,566
From: Marquette Mi
RE: New project - thoughts on condition?
Welcome! I would go with aftermarket heads, be they GT40 heads or aluminum AFR or Trick flow heads. Much easier than rebuilding a set, and the cost is only a bit above what a ported completely rebuilt pair would run.
Glen, there was a top loader 3 speed from Ford. Not sure what Ford put it in, but GM put it in some cars, in fact my 70 GTO had a toploader 3 speed.. It wasnt a Saginaw, but a heavy duty Dearborn unit.. I think thats what they called them, Dearborn. Anyway...
Defnitely check that cowl, being in the south it might not be too bad. The Cougar I have doesnt need it done, it came from California but it also sat inside for the last 20 years. Not so lucky with the fastback from Nebraska, it looks like it was pulled from the bottom of a lake.
Glen, there was a top loader 3 speed from Ford. Not sure what Ford put it in, but GM put it in some cars, in fact my 70 GTO had a toploader 3 speed.. It wasnt a Saginaw, but a heavy duty Dearborn unit.. I think thats what they called them, Dearborn. Anyway...
Defnitely check that cowl, being in the south it might not be too bad. The Cougar I have doesnt need it done, it came from California but it also sat inside for the last 20 years. Not so lucky with the fastback from Nebraska, it looks like it was pulled from the bottom of a lake.
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 6
From: Frisco, TX
RE: New project - thoughts on condition?
Thanks for all the input!
I have ran the door panel info and it came orignally as a 289 3 speed manual. Dark moss green with black vinyl. It currently has the 302 with an automatic that was supposedly rebuilt right before it was parked.
My biggest problems is not the desire to do the work myself but more to just never done it and I don't want to jack it up.
If there is anyone in the Dallas area who is in the rebuild process themselves or just wants to help, I would like to get a group that alternates on assisting each other. I know this is hard to organize but if anyone would be interested let me know.
The cowls don't look that bad, some minor surface rust on the floors the parts that scare me is in the trunk in the saddle bag area of the rear panels.
To do the plastic media blast at the only shop I have found who does it, would cost about $1500 or more.
If anyone knows of someone else or can recommend someone that does the plastic let me know.
Again thanks for all the help.
Oh and for those that may be interested if you do a search on the cardomain.com site for texas mustangs 1967 there are a couple of really good photo documentations of cowl replacement and rebuilds.
I have ran the door panel info and it came orignally as a 289 3 speed manual. Dark moss green with black vinyl. It currently has the 302 with an automatic that was supposedly rebuilt right before it was parked.
My biggest problems is not the desire to do the work myself but more to just never done it and I don't want to jack it up.
If there is anyone in the Dallas area who is in the rebuild process themselves or just wants to help, I would like to get a group that alternates on assisting each other. I know this is hard to organize but if anyone would be interested let me know.
The cowls don't look that bad, some minor surface rust on the floors the parts that scare me is in the trunk in the saddle bag area of the rear panels.
To do the plastic media blast at the only shop I have found who does it, would cost about $1500 or more.
If anyone knows of someone else or can recommend someone that does the plastic let me know.
Again thanks for all the help.
Oh and for those that may be interested if you do a search on the cardomain.com site for texas mustangs 1967 there are a couple of really good photo documentations of cowl replacement and rebuilds.
3rd Gear Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 566
From: Sugar Land, Texas
RE: New project - thoughts on condition?
ORIGINAL: Soaring
I am not aware of a toploader three speed that was ever put into a Mustang. Here is the only three speed top loader I am aware of. http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/f...sID_3speed.htm
ORIGINAL: Colorado_Mustang
.060 is quite a bit. You'll want to check your compression ratio before you really decide which heads you want. You may have a negative deck clearance. No big deal, but it may require thicker head gaskets.
It would be cheaper to get a set of aftermarket cast iron heads then to rebuild what you have.
Is the tranny a manual or auto. For a manual, the toploaders are as the sound...there's a top cover that all the parts go into the transmission. If you have 2 shift arms, it's the toploader 3-speed. 3 shift arms is the toploader 4-speed. If the cover is on the side, you have a weaker 4-speed (T10 I think).
If it's an auto, the pan shape will tell you what it is. The C4, FMX, and C5 have removable bellhousings.
.060 is quite a bit. You'll want to check your compression ratio before you really decide which heads you want. You may have a negative deck clearance. No big deal, but it may require thicker head gaskets.
It would be cheaper to get a set of aftermarket cast iron heads then to rebuild what you have.
Is the tranny a manual or auto. For a manual, the toploaders are as the sound...there's a top cover that all the parts go into the transmission. If you have 2 shift arms, it's the toploader 3-speed. 3 shift arms is the toploader 4-speed. If the cover is on the side, you have a weaker 4-speed (T10 I think).
If it's an auto, the pan shape will tell you what it is. The C4, FMX, and C5 have removable bellhousings.
ORIGINAL: frisco67mustang
So far I have the engine decked and milled to .060 and the heads cleaned up.
The machine shop says it needs a valve job (wondering if it's better to just get new heads).
2. thoughts on rebuilding the 302, it originally came with a 289 3 speed. (haven't gotten under it to figure out the tranny and how do i tell which trans it has?) I am looking for this to become my daily driver after I am done so easy idle and decent gas milage would be nice.
So far I have the engine decked and milled to .060 and the heads cleaned up.
The machine shop says it needs a valve job (wondering if it's better to just get new heads).
2. thoughts on rebuilding the 302, it originally came with a 289 3 speed. (haven't gotten under it to figure out the tranny and how do i tell which trans it has?) I am looking for this to become my daily driver after I am done so easy idle and decent gas milage would be nice.
My I6 has the 3.03 RAN model 3 speed which according to the 67 shop manual was "used on all cars having a 200 H.D. and 289 C.I.D. engine." A 3.03 RAT model tranny was used in the 390 engines. Are the toploaders considered the RAN or RAT model OR both?
I ♥ Acer
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 17,565
From:
RE: New project - thoughts on condition?
ORIGINAL: Cogtx
Ran across this "A Toploader transmission is a manually shifted three and four speed gearbox introduced in 1964 by Ford Motor Company to replace the BorgWarner T-10. It was used in most Fords and Mercurys from 1964 until 1973 as well as some foreign models. Officially designated the 3.03 three speed or Ford design .. "
My I6 has the 3.03 RAN model 3 speed which according to the 67 shop manual was "used on all cars having a 200 H.D. and 289 C.I.D. engine." A 3.03 RAT model tranny was used in the 390 engines. Are the toploaders considered the RAN or RAT model OR both?
ORIGINAL: Soaring
I am not aware of a toploader three speed that was ever put into a Mustang. Here is the only three speed top loader I am aware of. http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/f...sID_3speed.htm
ORIGINAL: Colorado_Mustang
.060 is quite a bit. You'll want to check your compression ratio before you really decide which heads you want. You may have a negative deck clearance. No big deal, but it may require thicker head gaskets.
It would be cheaper to get a set of aftermarket cast iron heads then to rebuild what you have.
Is the tranny a manual or auto. For a manual, the toploaders are as the sound...there's a top cover that all the parts go into the transmission. If you have 2 shift arms, it's the toploader 3-speed. 3 shift arms is the toploader 4-speed. If the cover is on the side, you have a weaker 4-speed (T10 I think).
If it's an auto, the pan shape will tell you what it is. The C4, FMX, and C5 have removable bellhousings.
.060 is quite a bit. You'll want to check your compression ratio before you really decide which heads you want. You may have a negative deck clearance. No big deal, but it may require thicker head gaskets.
It would be cheaper to get a set of aftermarket cast iron heads then to rebuild what you have.
Is the tranny a manual or auto. For a manual, the toploaders are as the sound...there's a top cover that all the parts go into the transmission. If you have 2 shift arms, it's the toploader 3-speed. 3 shift arms is the toploader 4-speed. If the cover is on the side, you have a weaker 4-speed (T10 I think).
If it's an auto, the pan shape will tell you what it is. The C4, FMX, and C5 have removable bellhousings.
ORIGINAL: frisco67mustang
So far I have the engine decked and milled to .060 and the heads cleaned up.
The machine shop says it needs a valve job (wondering if it's better to just get new heads).
2. thoughts on rebuilding the 302, it originally came with a 289 3 speed. (haven't gotten under it to figure out the tranny and how do i tell which trans it has?) I am looking for this to become my daily driver after I am done so easy idle and decent gas milage would be nice.
So far I have the engine decked and milled to .060 and the heads cleaned up.
The machine shop says it needs a valve job (wondering if it's better to just get new heads).
2. thoughts on rebuilding the 302, it originally came with a 289 3 speed. (haven't gotten under it to figure out the tranny and how do i tell which trans it has?) I am looking for this to become my daily driver after I am done so easy idle and decent gas milage would be nice.
My I6 has the 3.03 RAN model 3 speed which according to the 67 shop manual was "used on all cars having a 200 H.D. and 289 C.I.D. engine." A 3.03 RAT model tranny was used in the 390 engines. Are the toploaders considered the RAN or RAT model OR both?