DYNO TUNING ADVICE?
Thread Starter
I ♥ Acer
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 449
From: sanfranciscobayarea
DYNO TUNING ADVICE?
Hey all,
Sorry bout the CAPS.
I am looking into getting my 68 Dyno Tuned very soon. Never done it before. In fact I have only had my 68 for a few months now so I am not even sure yet of what all I have under the hood. I am looking at two options
1) BRG Racing out in Pacheco, CA (near Concord/Martinez): Specializing in motorcycles and anything fast. Looks like a solid operation. www.brgracing.com
They would be $125/hour & $62.50/half hour after that. Left a message for them but have not gotten a call back.
2) Bayshore Engine Rebuilders in San Francisco. These are the guys who built and installed my 347 Stroker, tranny, rear end...all that.
They probably can tell me a lot about my car that I dont know. And that could be really helpful.
They dont have a flashy website but they are a family business with a good reputation as far as I know. Really nice guys on the phone.
BUT they will be $200/hour and expect it to take 1 - 1 1/2 hours.
What should I do? What should I be looking for? Any advice? Thanks all!!!
Sorry bout the CAPS.
I am looking into getting my 68 Dyno Tuned very soon. Never done it before. In fact I have only had my 68 for a few months now so I am not even sure yet of what all I have under the hood. I am looking at two options
1) BRG Racing out in Pacheco, CA (near Concord/Martinez): Specializing in motorcycles and anything fast. Looks like a solid operation. www.brgracing.com
They would be $125/hour & $62.50/half hour after that. Left a message for them but have not gotten a call back.
2) Bayshore Engine Rebuilders in San Francisco. These are the guys who built and installed my 347 Stroker, tranny, rear end...all that.
They probably can tell me a lot about my car that I dont know. And that could be really helpful.
They dont have a flashy website but they are a family business with a good reputation as far as I know. Really nice guys on the phone.
BUT they will be $200/hour and expect it to take 1 - 1 1/2 hours.
What should I do? What should I be looking for? Any advice? Thanks all!!!
Mach I Section Moderator
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,140
From: round abouts these parts
RE: DYNO TUNING ADVICE?
) Bayshore Engine Rebuilders in San Francisco. These are the guys who built and installed my 347 Stroker, tranny, rear end...all that.
They probably can tell me a lot about my car that I dont know. And that could be really helpful.
They dont have a flashy website but they are a family business with a good reputation as far as I know. Really nice guys on the phone.
BUT they will be $200/hour and expect it to take 1 - 1 1/2 hours.
They probably can tell me a lot about my car that I dont know. And that could be really helpful.
They dont have a flashy website but they are a family business with a good reputation as far as I know. Really nice guys on the phone.
BUT they will be $200/hour and expect it to take 1 - 1 1/2 hours.
Thread Starter
I ♥ Acer
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 449
From: sanfranciscobayarea
RE: DYNO TUNING ADVICE?
i honestly would pay the extra$$$ b/c they know your engine and what it should do and how to get it there, where as the other guys dont have a starting pont on wher eyour car is at.
5th Gear Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,287
From: North Fulton, GA
RE: DYNO TUNING ADVICE?
Pick the place that will do the best job and the cost will be what it will be. By your estimate, the cost may vary by $100 or so. In the scheme of things, that is not enough money to sacrifice the job. FWIW, mine was done by a shop who has been doing it since the 60's and I paid $150 in L.A.
Good luck!
Jeff
Good luck!
Jeff
Thread Starter
I ♥ Acer
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 449
From: sanfranciscobayarea
RE: DYNO TUNING ADVICE?
Just for my reference,
How long would you expect a dyno tune to last before it would be needed again, assuming I am not messing around with a bunch of adjustments? I understand it is a subjective question with lots of variables but on average, what...
2000 miles?
5000 miles?
10000 miles?
Thanks a bunch. Sounds like I should be taking it to Bayshore Engine Rebuilders in SF. 'Preciate the thoughts on my question here all.
-Luke
How long would you expect a dyno tune to last before it would be needed again, assuming I am not messing around with a bunch of adjustments? I understand it is a subjective question with lots of variables but on average, what...
2000 miles?
5000 miles?
10000 miles?
Thanks a bunch. Sounds like I should be taking it to Bayshore Engine Rebuilders in SF. 'Preciate the thoughts on my question here all.
-Luke
6th Gear Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 10,468
From: California
RE: DYNO TUNING ADVICE?
Well, a few things about dyno tuning. First, unless you have a double pumper carb don't waste your time and money on a tune, chances are the pull would be over before the secondaries ever opened all the way up(on something like a vacuum secondary that is). You'll get bad numbers and end up tuning the car based on incorrect airflow and poor metering signal, then the AFR will be off under a load. Secondly, with carbureted cars quite often dyno tuning may show a gain in power, but reduce actual vehicle performance when you drive it. How a carbureted car runs on a dyno and how it runs in the real world are often 2 totally different things(depending on the carburetor). And third carburetors don't always deliver a precise AFR. You get it tuned and once the weather changes the tune is off, which defeats the purpose of spending money on a dyno tune. The best way on average to tune a carb'd car is by driving experience. Tune it so it drives better, gets better throttle response and turns faster times/speeds. The best way to tune it is torun it at a drag strip and adjust for best TRAP SPEED since that's a good indication of power. Get the best trap speed you can with as lean a jetting as you can(the AFR won't be lean, it'll prolly end up being slightly rich, but there's no sense in adding extra fuel if it doesn't make extra power, it wastes fuel and slows down combustion rates). Obviously you don't want detonation or sputtering or flat spots etc, so tune those out as well. If you do have a mechanical secondary carburetor then a dyno tune could work, but don't waste time and money trying to dial the AFR dead nutz, since as soon as the weather changes so does the AFR(carburetors are only so good at metering fuel correctly, not to say they're bad at it, just not good enough to justify trying to dial it absolutely dead on)
3rd Gear Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 512
From:
RE: DYNO TUNING ADVICE?
ORIGINAL: 67mustang302
Well, a few things about dyno tuning. First, unless you have a double pumper carb don't waste your time and money on a tune, chances are the pull would be over before the secondaries ever opened all the way up(on something like a vacuum secondary that is). You'll get bad numbers and end up tuning the car based on incorrect airflow and poor metering signal, then the AFR will be off under a load. Secondly, with carbureted cars quite often dyno tuning may show a gain in power, but reduce actual vehicle performance when you drive it. How a carbureted car runs on a dyno and how it runs in the real world are often 2 totally different things(depending on the carburetor). And third carburetors don't always deliver a precise AFR. You get it tuned and once the weather changes the tune is off, which defeats the purpose of spending money on a dyno tune. The best way on average to tune a carb'd car is by driving experience. Tune it so it drives better, gets better throttle response and turns faster times/speeds. The best way to tune it is torun it at a drag strip and adjust for best TRAP SPEED since that's a good indication of power. Get the best trap speed you can with as lean a jetting as you can(the AFR won't be lean, it'll prolly end up being slightly rich, but there's no sense in adding extra fuel if it doesn't make extra power, it wastes fuel and slows down combustion rates). Obviously you don't want detonation or sputtering or flat spots etc, so tune those out as well. If you do have a mechanical secondary carburetor then a dyno tune could work, but don't waste time and money trying to dial the AFR dead nutz, since as soon as the weather changes so does the AFR(carburetors are only so good at metering fuel correctly, not to say they're bad at it, just not good enough to justify trying to dial it absolutely dead on)
Well, a few things about dyno tuning. First, unless you have a double pumper carb don't waste your time and money on a tune, chances are the pull would be over before the secondaries ever opened all the way up(on something like a vacuum secondary that is). You'll get bad numbers and end up tuning the car based on incorrect airflow and poor metering signal, then the AFR will be off under a load. Secondly, with carbureted cars quite often dyno tuning may show a gain in power, but reduce actual vehicle performance when you drive it. How a carbureted car runs on a dyno and how it runs in the real world are often 2 totally different things(depending on the carburetor). And third carburetors don't always deliver a precise AFR. You get it tuned and once the weather changes the tune is off, which defeats the purpose of spending money on a dyno tune. The best way on average to tune a carb'd car is by driving experience. Tune it so it drives better, gets better throttle response and turns faster times/speeds. The best way to tune it is torun it at a drag strip and adjust for best TRAP SPEED since that's a good indication of power. Get the best trap speed you can with as lean a jetting as you can(the AFR won't be lean, it'll prolly end up being slightly rich, but there's no sense in adding extra fuel if it doesn't make extra power, it wastes fuel and slows down combustion rates). Obviously you don't want detonation or sputtering or flat spots etc, so tune those out as well. If you do have a mechanical secondary carburetor then a dyno tune could work, but don't waste time and money trying to dial the AFR dead nutz, since as soon as the weather changes so does the AFR(carburetors are only so good at metering fuel correctly, not to say they're bad at it, just not good enough to justify trying to dial it absolutely dead on)
When I had mine dyno tuned after adding a number of new components, they did a base run, mapping the A/F ratio. (top gear, so it takes some time to get through the rev range)
It showed up lean, and you could see the point on the graph that the secondaries started to open, andthey had a paperclip on the secondary rod to show how far it opened. (not all the way)
They changed out the main jets, put in a lighter spring and did a second run.
Based on that a few more adjustments were made, and the third run showed a beautiful A/F across the rev range.
How can this possibly not be a great thing to do? If the weather changes, you are in no worse position than if you did a seat of the pants tune on that same day.
the Original poster does not have anything close to the knowledge to do what you are suggesting which is absolutley the reason, in a previous post, I recommended him to get this dyno tune done.(No offence Idollar)
Sure, If you have been palying with carbies for years you can do great adjustments, but how many of us are that good, apart from you?
Thread Starter
I ♥ Acer
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 449
From: sanfranciscobayarea
RE: DYNO TUNING ADVICE?
thanks for all that info, 67_302. In all honesty it was a little overwhelming to my inexperienced brain. But my carb is a Barry Grant Speed Demon and I dont know much more than that yet. I am not really in a position to take it to the drag strip just yet. Right now I am just using it for cruising and it is not running as good as I know it can.
If you think dyno is overkill, what do you think some good alternatives might be. Tuning the carb on my own has produced mixed results. I just know the beast has more potential than what she is showing me now. Thanks again.
If you think dyno is overkill, what do you think some good alternatives might be. Tuning the carb on my own has produced mixed results. I just know the beast has more potential than what she is showing me now. Thanks again.
3rd Gear Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 512
From:
RE: DYNO TUNING ADVICE?
ORIGINAL: ldollar
thanks for all that info, 67_302. In all honesty it was a little overwhelming to my inexperienced brain. But my carb is a Barry Grant Speed Demon and I dont know much more than that yet. I am not really in a position to take it to the drag strip just yet. Right now I am just using it for cruising and it is not running as good as I know it can.
If you think dyno is overkill, what do you think some good alternatives might be. Tuning the carb on my own has produced mixed results. I just know the beast has more potential than what she is showing me now. Thanks again.
thanks for all that info, 67_302. In all honesty it was a little overwhelming to my inexperienced brain. But my carb is a Barry Grant Speed Demon and I dont know much more than that yet. I am not really in a position to take it to the drag strip just yet. Right now I am just using it for cruising and it is not running as good as I know it can.
If you think dyno is overkill, what do you think some good alternatives might be. Tuning the carb on my own has produced mixed results. I just know the beast has more potential than what she is showing me now. Thanks again.
Cheers
5th Gear Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,266
From: Australia
RE: DYNO TUNING ADVICE?
I probably sit somewhere between 67mustang302 and fast66...I use a dyno to get the initial setup right - power valve, jetting etc and even making sure the car is not over or under carbed.
Done once well, then the dyno tune lasts until something else changes on the engine (wear and tear or changing a significant part). The rest of the tuning can be done with a timing light and making sure the plug gaps are right and points set (if you have them), checking mixture, idle etc etc. So, IMO, its a good idea but not something that needs to be done very often.
Done once well, then the dyno tune lasts until something else changes on the engine (wear and tear or changing a significant part). The rest of the tuning can be done with a timing light and making sure the plug gaps are right and points set (if you have them), checking mixture, idle etc etc. So, IMO, its a good idea but not something that needs to be done very often.