timing and firing
Thread Starter
2nd Gear Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 157
From: California
timing and firing
so I dropped in the 289 into my 1967. now its just sitting in there, and I realized I dont know how to check the timing/ make sure it fires right/ set spark plugs and the distributor. I heard these steps are really really crucial, so please help with what you can.
I really dont want to mess anything up, or brake any internals. thanks a lot guys
I really dont want to mess anything up, or brake any internals. thanks a lot guys
6th Gear Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,417
From: Cork, Ireland
well if you have points in your distributor, then you need to adjust them first.
the gap should be 0.017". if you have a dwell meter, use 27deg or 60% dwell
(since (360-27*8)/360=0.6)
once that is done you can adjust your distributor so that it points the rotor to #1 cylinder while the #1 piston is on TDC compression stroke (both valves closed)
the engine should start this way. once warm you need to adjust ignition to around 8 degrees BTDC (before top dead center) if the engine is stock. this with vacuum hose disconnected from distributor and hose blocked. all this at idle speed. if the car is auto you have to do this in gear ('D'), so you'll need to secure the car with blocks and better someone inside on the brakes.
of course you will need a timing gun for this.
however if the cam is flat tappet and new I would take care to run in the engine for 20 mins before messing around much with the timing. you can turn the distributor a bit and if the rpms go up adjust the throttle to keep it at around 2500 and keep adjusting the distributor so the engine runs at highest rpm, then re-adjust the throttle back to 2500-ish again ...
the gap should be 0.017". if you have a dwell meter, use 27deg or 60% dwell
(since (360-27*8)/360=0.6)
once that is done you can adjust your distributor so that it points the rotor to #1 cylinder while the #1 piston is on TDC compression stroke (both valves closed)
the engine should start this way. once warm you need to adjust ignition to around 8 degrees BTDC (before top dead center) if the engine is stock. this with vacuum hose disconnected from distributor and hose blocked. all this at idle speed. if the car is auto you have to do this in gear ('D'), so you'll need to secure the car with blocks and better someone inside on the brakes.
of course you will need a timing gun for this.
however if the cam is flat tappet and new I would take care to run in the engine for 20 mins before messing around much with the timing. you can turn the distributor a bit and if the rpms go up adjust the throttle to keep it at around 2500 and keep adjusting the distributor so the engine runs at highest rpm, then re-adjust the throttle back to 2500-ish again ...
3rd Gear Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 886
From: North East Texas on the Red River
My Dad used to tell me "you'll never learn any younger." You might want to find a friend that can show you how to do it the first time. After you've been through all of this, it will be easy next time, and if you stay with a point ignition, the next time will come before you know it.
Back in the point ignition days, you had to replace points and plugs going through all the outline that Kalli gave you, about every 8 to 10 thousand miles if you wanted the car to keep running good.
If this is a car that you do not require to have the engine look exactly as original, you can get a Duraspark distributor and ignition module from the salvage yard for cheap. Put that in and you won't have to mess with it hardly at all after that.
Back in the point ignition days, you had to replace points and plugs going through all the outline that Kalli gave you, about every 8 to 10 thousand miles if you wanted the car to keep running good.
If this is a car that you do not require to have the engine look exactly as original, you can get a Duraspark distributor and ignition module from the salvage yard for cheap. Put that in and you won't have to mess with it hardly at all after that.
6th Gear Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,417
From: Cork, Ireland
well let's start from scratch
does the car already run as it is, or did you just put it altogether and nothing works?
if it's already running I can write up how to adjust the points and ignition.
does the car already run as it is, or did you just put it altogether and nothing works?
if it's already running I can write up how to adjust the points and ignition.
Thread Starter
2nd Gear Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 157
From: California
kalli - I havent fired it up yet. I just dropped it in monday, it rained yesterday, so today I am going to hook everything up.
i was told before I start it, I need to line things up, make sure #1 cylinder is up and some dent/line on the harmonic balancer matches a dent/line on the block??
then something about knowing which way the distibuter turns, so I know where to set it.
Like i said Kalli, the engine has not been fired. Do I need to try to fire and run it first before doing settings?
i was told before I start it, I need to line things up, make sure #1 cylinder is up and some dent/line on the harmonic balancer matches a dent/line on the block??
then something about knowing which way the distibuter turns, so I know where to set it.
Like i said Kalli, the engine has not been fired. Do I need to try to fire and run it first before doing settings?
6th Gear Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,417
From: Cork, Ireland
no, don't even try ...
what the other fella said is correct
well the first thing you'll need are timing marks.
typically it looks like this on a 289: you can see the two white lines on the balancer. someone marked them to see them more clear. but youshould have that graduation, that's the markings on the balancer
if you follow the markings to the right you see something sticking a bit out of the block, that's the pointer.
you need to line it up in such a way that the pointer points to zero (0) or TDC on the balancer. for this turn the engine manually at the front at crank bolt clockwise. make sure you are not in gear.
well the crankshaft will turn twice when the distributor turns once, so you need to find the compression stroke of the first cylinder
the first cylinder is the one at front of engine (towards radiator) on passenger side of the car. remove the valve cover and look at the rockers. the frist two from radiator side are intake and exhaust for #1. when you manually turn the engine you will see them going up and down. the puhrod pushes them up on inner side of engine to open the valves on outer side of engine. keep turning until the marks match as said above and that both valves are closed at the same time. (that means pushrod not pushing up).
if one or both (can't remember) are pushing the valve, then keep turning the engine once more til it matches up again, then both should be closed.
once that is done the engine is sitting where you want it. #1 TDC (top dead center of piston) on compression stroke.
once you have that, don't turn the engine anymore
place the distributor in such a way that the rotor points to the spark plug cable in cap points that goes to #1 cylinder. you can turn distributor for that. if it's out of range you will have to remove distributor turn the rotor and put it back in.
if the points are set correctly and all the rest is ok, the car should start and fire.
before you fire:
was the camshaft changed in the engine? was it run in? who did the work?
on the harmonic balancer you'll see markings. they might say TDC and a 4, 6, 8, 12. and on the block you have to have a pointer or a notch. if it's cut off then you'll need to replace it
what the other fella said is correct
well the first thing you'll need are timing marks.
typically it looks like this on a 289: you can see the two white lines on the balancer. someone marked them to see them more clear. but youshould have that graduation, that's the markings on the balancer
if you follow the markings to the right you see something sticking a bit out of the block, that's the pointer.
you need to line it up in such a way that the pointer points to zero (0) or TDC on the balancer. for this turn the engine manually at the front at crank bolt clockwise. make sure you are not in gear.
well the crankshaft will turn twice when the distributor turns once, so you need to find the compression stroke of the first cylinder
the first cylinder is the one at front of engine (towards radiator) on passenger side of the car. remove the valve cover and look at the rockers. the frist two from radiator side are intake and exhaust for #1. when you manually turn the engine you will see them going up and down. the puhrod pushes them up on inner side of engine to open the valves on outer side of engine. keep turning until the marks match as said above and that both valves are closed at the same time. (that means pushrod not pushing up).
if one or both (can't remember) are pushing the valve, then keep turning the engine once more til it matches up again, then both should be closed.
once that is done the engine is sitting where you want it. #1 TDC (top dead center of piston) on compression stroke.
once you have that, don't turn the engine anymore
place the distributor in such a way that the rotor points to the spark plug cable in cap points that goes to #1 cylinder. you can turn distributor for that. if it's out of range you will have to remove distributor turn the rotor and put it back in.
if the points are set correctly and all the rest is ok, the car should start and fire.
before you fire:
was the camshaft changed in the engine? was it run in? who did the work?
on the harmonic balancer you'll see markings. they might say TDC and a 4, 6, 8, 12. and on the block you have to have a pointer or a notch. if it's cut off then you'll need to replace it
Thread Starter
2nd Gear Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 157
From: California
i saw all the markings and the lip on the block. It was IMPOSSIBLE to turn the crank by hand... I had done it before and it would turn. Now it will not. I put the trans in neutral (toploader)
I must be doing something wrong.
I must be doing something wrong.
1st Gear Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 66
Take out all the spark plugs and the engine will turn easier.Just dont mess up the order of the sparkplug wires.Use a long cheater bar to turn it over.If it turns over,stick your thumb over the #1 cylinder sparkplug hole and turn the engine over until you feel air pushing out.That means you are coming up on the compression stroke TDC.Watch your #'s on the balancer,you should be close to TDC.Then go a little more to about 8-10 degrees.Then put all your plugs back in,double check all the wires(its real easy to get 1 or more mixed up)and point your distributor rotor directly at the position where the #1 plug wire is.This should put you close enough to start it.If it starts,check with a timing gun. Good luck Al
Thread Starter
2nd Gear Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 157
From: California
the spark plugs were out, and it would not budge the crank. it was much easier when I had it on a wagon in my backyard, i had to put much much much less effort to turn it by hand.
Something just doesnt seem right.... its been 3 maybe 4 months max since I've turned it by hand.
Something just doesnt seem right.... its been 3 maybe 4 months max since I've turned it by hand.